Do you want a better understanding of what led up to 7/10 in Gaza

There are certainly some good YouTube videos out there - which give the explanation as from Day 1 as to "why" re Palestine. Check for ones on the Nakba.

One I saw is "Al-Nakba: The Palestinian Catastrophe". It's rather a long watch - but does make it clear why the problem exists there. You can't just turn round and legislate to give someone's property to someone else that would like to steal it and will then turn round and do so.

Though one of the very few things I recall my father saying about his time in the armed forces was that Palestine must have been his first posting or thereabouts. His comment was "We had to protect the Palestinians. The Israelis were chasing them....they were murdering them" and he'd obviously been very shocked by their attitude.

I had got the idea decades before the latest news from Palestine how it had all started and who was at fault.

Yep the start of the latest round of hostilities was awful - though the most awful thing was the Israeli "government" knew in advance and let it happen - to their own people! That much I don't understand as to why they did that.

So it does go back decades and there's people still walking around with the key to their own homes that they've not been able to live in for decades - as a settler personally walked in and stole them off them directly. One can very much sympathise with that - as if someone stole my house and I didn't even have the money/etc to get another one = my house would have a mysterious fire very soon afterwards - probably in the middle of the night (ie when the thieves were in there asleep).

Yep...I used to be a pacifist....but sometimes....

I've now watched all three episodes. The last one explained the Abraham accords tbh I had not appreciated how damaging they were to the Palestinians. How on earth did Trump think negotiations that excluded Palestine would lead to peace! He's not learned by this experience though just compare his attempts to get peace in Ukraine and Gaza this time round. He traded the possibility of peace because of vanity ( moving the US embassy to Jerusalem) but his face said it all when Netanyahu showed his Middle East map. Worth watching just to see his reaction to being outsmarted.

I've now watched all three of the episodes already screened (now looking at the housework I didn't do ) and am looking forward to the last episode. I really have learnt a lot. Thank you for posting about them foxie48.

Oreo

Nothing wrong in showing historical content about what lead up to establishing the State of Israel, especially for people who have no clue about it.
The Palestinians have some serious grievances but carrying hate on for generations does nobody any good.
So it will carry on for ever more generations and hamas have that to answer for and all their supporters.

From your comment, it's obvious you haven't watched the documentaries. Maybe you should because your last comment shows serious ignorance about the many and complex negotiations over the last couple of decades.

The documentary is not about the establishment of the State of Israel, that was covered in quite a lot of detail in NP's previous series. This is a focus on a much later period and in particular the period after the breakdown of the Oslo Accords and the continued efforts to find peace.

"The Road to 7th October (w/t) for BBC Two and BBC iPlayer. The series chronicles the decisions that have shaped the Israeli-Palestinian conflict over the past two decades and the failed attempts to broker peace, leading up to the events of 7th October 2023."

Nothing wrong in showing historical content about what lead up to establishing the State of Israel, especially for people who have no clue about it.
The Palestinians have some serious grievances but carrying hate on for generations does nobody any good.
So it will carry on for ever more generations and hamas have that to answer for and all their supporters.

How can anyone understand genocide. Changed the opinion I had for Israel, they have put themselves above the Law of God. It will come back on them.

I found that interesting, too foxie. I hadn't realised that Hamas hadn't been expected to win. It's a great shame that there wasn't more support for Abbas in stopping the settlements in the West Bank. On the contrary, Netanyahu has supported settlements and has increased the funding to protect the settlers by a massive amount. He has undermined Abbas' authority, which has increased the legitimacy for Hamas in Palestinian eyes.

Growstuff I also thought I was pretty well informed, I watched the previous series that Norma Percy did which was on PBS and IMO was also excellent. How she is able to get so many key figures talking openly about what has been discussed "behind the scenes" is amazing and what they say is really illuminating.
I started the thread because I thought there might be people who were interested tbh it is of no interest to me if anyone would prefer to discredit or discuss something they can't even be bothered to watch. I wouldn't value a literary review by someone who hasn't read the book in question either!
With regard to the documentary, for me it helped to clarify some of the issues surrounding the election in 2006 and also the difficult situation that Mohammed Abbas found himself in having lost control of Gaza to Hamas. I shall watch the final episode this evening. It's a great pity that Trump isn't better informed if he were, he might appreciate why his plan to turn Gaza into a beach resort is nothing short of complete lunacy. He has more chance of building a holiday resort on the moon.

Or even a few magic bombs.

David49

The documentaries change nothing while the Palestinians attack Israel there will be no peace.
If, and it is a big IF Hamas leaves Gaza and a peaceful civilian government capable of ensuring security is established Gaza will be rebuilt.
We are a long way from that at present.

And you think somebody has a magic wand which can achieve that?

I think you're missing the point about the documentaries David49. They're not intended as propaganda, but to inform, as all good documentaries should. I've watched two of them and I feel better informed about the history of the conflict, even though I thought I was fairly well informed.

Maybe you think people shouldn't try to find out about the background to their opinions - or maybe you think people shouldn't have any opinions at all.

Have you ever considered how your own opinions have been formed? What have been the sources at the root of your own opinions? Were they biased? Have you considered other points of view?

At the worst, people will pick and choose the bits from the documentaries which reinforce their own entrenched opinions. At best, people might actually try to be more objective. Without objectivity and a willingness to seek compromise and peace, there will never be an end to the conflict.

But the documentaries are reaching out to the public David as well as protagonists to better understand the conflict, which is much needed.

People who don't know the complex history tend to jump to conclusions in terms of how they perceive the last two years. That means our own government too and other "players" in the situation.

The documentaries change nothing while the Palestinians attack Israel there will be no peace.
If, and it is a big IF Hamas leaves Gaza and a peaceful civilian government capable of ensuring security is established Gaza will be rebuilt.
We are a long way from that at present.

Nothing 'explains' rape and murder of inncosent people on this scale, nor the kidnappings that took place on 7th October.

Nothing explains the gross over reaction by the other side.

I haven't clicked on the link but I am a student of history and do know a lot, though obviously, not everything, about the history of the animosity been jew and palestinian.

David49

growstuff

Have you watched the documentaries David49?

I understand the issues the Palestinians have, and the fact that they don’t want to live alongside the Israelis, attitudes need to change on both sides - are they?.

There is going to be no long term solution until, Palestinians and Israelis agree to live alongside each other without fighting.

Indeed! Attitudes do need to change on both sides. Negotiations cannot succeed when protagonists have such entrenched beliefs and don't actually want peace.

growstuff

Have you watched the documentaries David49?

I understand the issues the Palestinians have, and the fact that they don’t want to live alongside the Israelis, attitudes need to change on both sides - are they?.

There is going to be no long term solution until, Palestinians and Israelis agree to live alongside each other without fighting.

IMO the reaction on both sides can be explained but not justified I agree growstuff.

Have you watched the documentaries David49?

In a “normal” uprising or unrest there is a winner and a looser it’s not like that in Gaza because Hamas are holding the whole population to ransom, just like the Israeli hostages.
They have no regard to how many Palestinians die they are martyrs to the cause, the first stage to a solution is for Hamas to leave Gaza.

I was watching Jeremy Bowen commenting about Gaza on Sunday his conclusion was there is plenty of money from the Arab states to rebuild Gaza maybe even Trumps “Riviera” and make it a thriving community, nothing is going to happen until peace is restored

Yes, I think that its an approach that could help, if only people would listen.

It's beyond me how people can add to a hideous and hate filled situation by displaying more of the same.

It's hearbreaking. There but for the grace of God go I ( and my family)

IMO the reaction on both sides can be explained but not justified.

Reading the replies, pass

M0nica

Nothing can justify or explain what happened on 7 October.

Nothing can justify or explain the extent of the Israeli reaction.

Not trying to justify or explain Monica, not even taking up a position of supporting one side or another, just saying it's helped me gain a deeper understanding of the complexities of the situation which tbh is I think all anyone can do.