Strewth- a totally different point of view

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^People really are a lot more than their politics^

Indeed we are PoliticsNerd. You’re right there.

I said what I did to you because what you’d written sounded so po-faced. It was as though you were outlining what you did - being open, centre, listening to other friends - as if the rest of us don’t think to do that in real life!

Apologies if it seemed harsh. I think I just found your comment somewhat crass and responded in a knee jerk fashion.

You, and some others, often do FGT. You seem to only want to tallk to your kind (a very narrow definition) of "People Like Us". Everyone you don't think conforms gets the "harsh" treatment.

I thought 'in-groups' and 'out-groups' disappeared at school. I think I gave up on people who behave like this in my third or forth infant school. No one can ever be like everyone else, but I find I am grateful for that.

imaround

I will say, there is a lot of fraud in our medical systems. They aren't wrong about that. The system needs a complete overhaul, no one disputes that. But taking Healthcare away from millions of people is not going to solve anything.

The huge mistake is that you need people in place, at federal level, to tackle the fraud, to alter systems. Just cutting the department will have the opposite effect.

Cuts in actual care will take place within a flawed system and make it more chaotic and those with low incomes relying part or whole on government funding will be left with no care or go bankrupt - this means usually complex expensive treatments for cancer, kidneys, MND, and so on.

People really are a lot more than their politics

Indeed we are PoliticsNerd. You’re right there.

I said what I did to you because what you’d written sounded so po-faced. It was as though you were outlining what you did - being open, centre, listening to other friends - as if the rest of us don’t think to do that in real life!

Apologies if it seemed harsh. I think I just found your comment somewhat crass and responded in a knee jerk fashion.

First line was not a quote.

medics used to critical thinking I really doubt that, after my and DD's experience over the last fewyears.

Getting personal again FGT. It seems to be a default for some.

Ooh you paragon of virtue you!
It’s the rest of us wot’s getting things wrong.

Mind you you seem comfortable with a certain cohort on here PoliticsNerd perhaps that’s your ‘confirmation bias’.

We also have a saying.
“Birds of a feather stick together”.

I think we all do this to some extent don’t you?

nanna8 asked a question and I answered. What would you like me to do? It seems some of you are feeling very insecure and I apologise if I have added to that insecurity but I really have no idea why that may be the case.

As for "sticking together", I think that will mean different things to different people. I meet and have met nice people from here and in other countries. They become my friends but with some we discover we don't share the same starting point for our politics. Are you suggesting I should drop them because of this? They are often the people I learn most from, have the best discussions with and often have areas where our view are in common.

People really are a lot more than their politics.

That was to escaped

Well we would like to think so, but evidence does not support that I think.☹️

PoliticsNerd

nanna8

PoliticsNerd I don’t actually know any far right people. Do you ? I don’t know these two Americans, either but happened to sit with them for a meal. Genuine far righters are pretty rare I think but a lot of far left people claim that anyone who disagrees with their precious point of view is ‘far right’. Very dangerous presumptions and far more damaging. I nearly always vote for the Labour Party here, unbelievable though it might be for you but sometimes I look at a good candidate and vote for their party, whatever it might be. Sometimes Green, sometimes Liberal. I would never,ever vote for your leader as I think he is dreadful but that is my prerogative.

I do, nanna8, although they may not "appear" to be far-right in the way you would expect to see them. I have quite a cross-section of friends. I sit happily in the middle and can learn from all of them.

Ooh you paragon of virtue you!
It’s the rest of us wot’s getting things wrong.

Mind you you seem comfortable with a certain cohort on here PoliticsNerd perhaps that’s your ‘confirmation bias’.

We also have a saying.
“Birds of a feather stick together”.

I think we all do this to some extent don’t you?

Indeed Whitewavemark2. About half of the German medical profession became members of the Nazi Party. Doctors and Scientists were actually one of the professions who embraced Hitler most.
Just because someone is intellectual or educated doesn't make them less of a supporter.
The difference is that, in Hitler's time, people just followed along others, whereas now fortunately, with more information available to them, people are more discerning.

A lot of very intelligent people supported Hitler. A lot of very intelligent people support Nazi ideology, or far right authoritarianism that Trump represents.

It didn’t nor does it make them right.

Doctors aren't the font of all knowledge and wisdom. They may be good at their jobs as are many people.
It's true that people from all walks of life will support Trump but judging by the very many who were out protesting in the US yesterday rather a lot don't.
Trump is enjoying having other countries coming to him with their begging bowls asking for lower tariffs.

PoliticsNerd

escaped

PoliticsNerd

Galaxy

'Educate yourself' to think like me.
Confirmation bias, and specific use of the media to confirm that bias, is exactly why the progressives find themselves at a loss to understand Trumps win and his voters.

Oh dear - really? Promoting critical thinking doesn't equate to asking others to adopt a single perspective. Do you have to descend to this level of argument? Is that really all you have to offer?

I think that's a bit harsh on Galaxy.

You may think so. I find deliberately re-interpreting another person's post to use it to personally attack was far worse than "harsh". It was the lowest form of arguement (Graham's hierarchy)

You may think so. I find deliberately re-interpreting another person's post to use it to personally attack was far worse than "harsh". It was the lowest form of arguement (Graham's hierarchy)

You mean exactly as you did with the OP?

PoliticsNerd

NotSpaghetti

Maybe that is the "good" this presidency will do in the world.
Unite people with very different views!

Could it split America off from a large part of the world? Trump unravelled sounds isolationist. He may get his wish but is that really the wish of the American people?

I wonder that as well.

Depends how far he goes with things?
How much he changes his mind?
How much he rows back?

I think he can be somewhat diplomatic when he wants to be?

Trump is the strangest President that the US has ever come up with

I think I would agree with that.

ronib

That’s good to know Willow3 - my fault for believing the news streams. Still quite a few billion going to Ukraine and at a time when Uk needs to spend on its own people and priorities.£18 billion potentially? That’s a few hospital refurbishments?

Presumably all could change depending on the outcomes of present talks/actions around Ukraine, because the money is for military assistance only, and was written in January 25 echoing ongoing commitments already made by Sunak under the situation as it was then. If the situation changes I expect a review as the UK has committed more to defence spending and we dont know if and how Europe will be involved in the future.

I expect people will differ as to how much support we should give them against Russia.

He's basically a reality show actor performing in his own show,each week he needs a cliff hanger to keep the audience watching and waiting while he plays golf at the weekend.

I think you've got a hole in one there, foxie48!

foxie48

I watched some Fox news and it seems to operate in a parallel universe! If it is their main or only source of "information" then I can understand why the two medics hold the views they do. IMO and in the opinion of most of the rest of the world, Trump is damaging world trade and the US won't escape the damage. Sadly the people who make up the bulk of MAGA will be the worst affected but that doesn't seem to worry him.
Trump clearly doesn't understand how tarrifs work or what VAT actually is. He's basically a reality show actor performing in his own show,each week he needs a cliff hanger to keep the audience watching and waiting while he plays golf at the weekend.
What worries me is how many back handers will pass into his crypto account from countries buying a better deal. The possibilities for massive corruption are endless for this mafia type president who wants to be the richest guy in the world.

No-one knows if these two medics only watch Fox News, it was an assumption by another poster.

I presume, as medics, they are used to critical thinking. We may not agree with them but perhaps our news media is biased too.

Casdon

It’s the floating voters that carry the day in every election, not the confirmed supporters of one side or the other, who tend to vote for their team whatever they do.

I agree.

I am one of them. Rarely vote for the same Party twice in a row.
I like it actually, It often also means I vote for the Party or candidate who actually suceeded.

This iall a bit of an aside really, but I often think Parties and people on Social Media seem like they are appealing to the voters they would already get, rather than outlier and swing voters.

Do you only know far-right supporters Nanna8?

Why would you assume that, PoliticsNerd

If you read nanna8's post she said We were just sat with a couple of American medical doctors who were avid Trump supporters which to me implies they were two people they'd just met by chance.

Interesting but also rather worrying, nanna8.
Interesting to hear that they were not the usual portrayal of Trump supporters as we are led to believe here.

Worrying if they and others of their ilk support him without question.

That’s good to know Willow3 - my fault for believing the news streams. Still quite a few billion going to Ukraine and at a time when Uk needs to spend on its own people and priorities.£18 billion potentially? That’s a few hospital refurbishments?

Presumably these two US doctors have pension pots which will have fallen massively in value due to the losses on the markets, which are entirely due to Trump’s tariff policy?

ronib

I hadn’t realised how bad the American economy is just now and can but hope that Trump is able to save his country. No point being nasty- 34 trillion dollars in national debt is a real problem I guess? The interest repayments must be huge so Trump will want to mitigate that somehow.
It’s good to hear that intelligent people are talking about corruption in Ukraine as unfortunately, our government has committed 3 billion a year for the next 100 years to help Ukraine. Perhaps a rethink is needed?

The UK government has not committed 3 billion a year for the next 100 years to Ukraine.

Full fact check:

Claim
" Keir Starmer has promised Ukraine £3 billion a year for the next 100 years.

Reply
"This is not really correct. The UK has signed a 100-year partnership accord with Ukraine, but it doesn’t commit the UK to providing military aid for 100 years. It says the UK will give £3 billion a year of military support until 2030/31 and “for as long as needed to support Ukraine”

There is a lot of detail to take in on the treaty to do with partnership provisions but note above all:

"(the treaty "“may be terminated by either Participant by sending a written notice to the other Participant”)

No, probably not, PoliticsNerd - but the good news is that (for now) he will be gone in 4 years and ineffectual before that...

I think we can hope he doesn't get to mess about and settles for this one second term (rather than changing the laws/constitution and/or being VP etc...

PoliticsNerd
All it means is that you didn’t ‘get’ an ironic remark. I think most posters understand irony but obvs not all.
A different POV isn’t a personal attack btw.