Starmer, Macron, Carney and others are already talking to one another as we have seen. Several sources are suggesting that they may also be discussing an alliance of countries committed to the rules based system.
The combined economies of Canada, the UK, Australia Japan and the EU are slightly greater than the American economy. They all also have quite large volumes of trade with America too. Banding together could give them far greater strength. These countries are already used to co-operating with one another. It could also easily be expanded to included others.
This would not be a free trade area, just about keeping trade barriers between the interested parties as low as possible to cut America out where they can.
I thought it worth having a separate thread for this, following any developments on this topic.
From the newspaper headlines this morning:
Independent: "“UK move closer to softer Brexit as hopes fade for quick US deal”
Financial Times "Brussels open to taxing Big Tech of Trump talks fail, von Der Leyen says”
it does seem like movements towards less risky trade pacts are on the way.
I have also read that the EU is considering the possibility of the euro becoming the reserve currency.
Has a lot going for it.
It is the most stable economic block. Abides by the rules and not subject to the vagaries of an idiot
It’s very uncertain however the US dollar is still stable and remains the main international trading currency. For now we wait and see what sensible tariffs are agreed within the 90 day pause.
I have seen that there could be moves afoot to change the dominance of the dollar in world trade.
And Trump is trying to sack the Head of the Federal Reserve (the US equivalent of the BoE) who remains independent of him . This could affect the stability of the dollar.
I wouldn't place too much reliance on the current hegemony...
fancythat
Trump has made everything[well it seems everything!], so much more changable.
I wouldnt want to be involved in world trade right now.
Personally, I think I will see where it all settles. If it does.
Situations could all change again next week.
It’s very uncertain however the US dollar is still stable and remains the main international trading currency. For now we wait and see what sensible tariffs are agreed within the 90 day pause.
David49
Our imports come from diverse sources, we buy from the most economic supplier, that hasn’t changed, Trump hasnt affected our trade with third countries (yet)
We buy much of our raw materials based on historic trade links David49, best price has not been the only consideration. I don’t understand why you seem to oppose democratic countries working together in a new bloc to get the best deal for us all, and trading collaboratively. We can’t allow USA to dictate. I wish we weren’t where we are, but we have to find new ways.
Our imports come from diverse sources, we buy from the most economic supplier, that hasn’t changed, Trump hasnt affected our trade with third countries (yet)
Trump has made everything[well it seems everything!], so much more changable.
I wouldnt want to be involved in world trade right now.
Personally, I think I will see where it all settles. If it does.
Situations could all change again next week.
David49
“As far as I'm aware each of the states of America is as big as a European country so it's amazing that they have stayed "United" for as long s the have.”
Staying together has been their strength, despite their very diverse lifestyles and economies there has never been any serious challenge since the civil war. Their industrial strength all achieved by migrants, even today its migrants that power the economy.
Unlike Europe which have always had self interest and national culture dividing them, that is going to be a very big challenge to make an effective western leader without the US
It has been both a strength and, for some states a weakness David49. If you travel in America you can see huge differences between them. Some State Governors have been able to make a great difference. Perhaps the prospective Coalition of Democratic States (countries) should start talking to individual governors in the USA. After all we have all seen how fractious individual states/countries can be when working as a collective - one even left the European Union in a huff!
A bit of trouble in their own back yard might concentrate minds.
David49
Economically I don’t think there is a problem, I believe we will move closer to the EU, however I don’t think we can replace the 25% of our trade that we have with the US, it’s very much in our interests to maintain that. We are not likely to sell more Whisky or Range Rovers, or other goods into Europe.
With an aggressive neighbour you can’t divorce defence because a lot of resources need to be spent on rearming and manning our forces.
I’m less concerned about export of what are mainly luxury goods (some of which will still be purchased whether the tariffs are there or not) than I am about our imports of fuel, pharmaceuticals and raw materials David49. It’s about ensuring there is a level playing field, which doesn’t rely so heavily on the USA, simply because historically we have done.
Casdon
fancythat
I think being in a trading group and Nato would suit us better, currently, than being in a political union but, of course, that is my bias talking. It's not a particularly fact based opinion
I think the idea of a political union is dead and buried for decades.I think effectively a new trading bloc would be a bloc of democratic nations. In other words, a political union without the paperwork’s binding countries together.
That seems a good starting point but I imagine, even within democratic nations each would want some level if protection for some of their own industries.
Economically I don’t think there is a problem, I believe we will move closer to the EU, however I don’t think we can replace the 25% of our trade that we have with the US, it’s very much in our interests to maintain that. We are not likely to sell more Whisky or Range Rovers, or other goods into Europe.
With an aggressive neighbour you can’t divorce defence because a lot of resources need to be spent on rearming and manning our forces.
David49 I think we are at cross purposes. This thread isn’t about defence, it’s about trading to best advantage with like minded countries across the world, as an alternative to punitive tariffs. The EU does not have all the resources needed. Your confidence in the future relationship with the US may or may not be misplaced, who knows yet, but regardless of that, the world order is changing and we need to change our historical trade reliances.
The EU is an effective trading bloc, Ukraine has proved defence is everything but united, without the US there is nothing to hold them together. Diverse national politics will make it impossible to have effective defence capability.
Currently if one or two states dont agree with policy it doesn’t matter, the US will fill the gap, it will matter if the US is not there.
I have pretty high confidence that in the “post Trump chaos” era the US will still be there as a backstop, other NATO countries will increase spending to restore capability. If Russia really is a threat to other neighbours, I really don’t see a European force being an effective deterrent to an aggressive Putin.
A trading bloc doesn’t need a leader though, does it? It’s about reciprocal agreements, not about leadership. Europe and the commonwealth countries are vastly experienced in working in this way already.
But is it necessary to have a single "effective western leader?"
Hasn't worked out too well, has it, when that "leader" turns out to be Trump - or someone like him.
Impossible I would say.
“As far as I'm aware each of the states of America is as big as a European country so it's amazing that they have stayed "United" for as long s the have.”
Staying together has been their strength, despite their very diverse lifestyles and economies there has never been any serious challenge since the civil war. Their industrial strength all achieved by migrants, even today its migrants that power the economy.
Unlike Europe which have always had self interest and national culture dividing them, that is going to be a very big challenge to make an effective western leader without the US
Well, paperwork required for international agreements' trading and standards purposes, but yes.
fancythat
^I think being in a trading group and Nato would suit us better, currently, than being in a political union but, of course, that is my bias talking. It's not a particularly fact based opinion^
I think the idea of a political union is dead and buried for decades.
I think effectively a new trading bloc would be a bloc of democratic nations. In other words, a political union without the paperwork’s binding countries together.
I think being in a trading group and Nato would suit us better, currently, than being in a political union but, of course, that is my bias talking. It's not a particularly fact based opinion
I think the idea of a political union is dead and buried for decades.
Chocolatelovinggran
Surely not, foxie??
Surely not, foxie??
Corruption! Chocolatelovinggran
Indeed Wyllow- Trump is telling everyone to buy now..I posted on another thread about potty mouth Marjorie Taylor Green. She sold her stocks and deposited the money in safer waters just before tarriffgate, and is now, free to repurchase at rates wholly favourable to herself.
Coincidence? Premonition? Insider trading? I could hazard a guess.
Trump recommending people to buy - before he dropped the tariffs that he has - is such a corrupt act. I bet his buddies knew of it sooner, too.
Picking up the tone of the thread, whats coming out to me is "unreliable" and "alternatives".
Meanwhile, as documented on the Trump thread, he continues to take away the freedoms and sacking tens of thousands of his own people whilst giving no clear path to prosperity for the "rust belts".
We have to consider these too in terms of future trade and diplomatic relations with the USA.
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.
