The USA Federal Court has backed Trump on kicking out the criminals.

In 2024, the total number of immigrants arrested was 17,048 out of 11,000,000

Total percentage = 0.15%

For those who want to see the big picture.

And I still say that 25% is extraordinarily high.

We will have to agree to differ.

imaround

I will try this again.

The 25% number comes only from the small subgroup of aliens that Trump has rounded up, not from the total number of immigrants in the US. There are estimated to be 11 million illegal immigrants in the US. He was targeting criminals in his search, of course the numbers will be higher than the rest of the population.

The 25% number only applies to the group Trump rounded up and does not reflect criminals in the overall population of the 11 million migrants in the US.

I was nt talking about the total number of immigrants in the US either.

Casdon

fancythat

I wonder if we are talking at cross purposes.

At least 22% of the men on the list have criminal records here in the United States or abroad. The vast majority are for non-violent offenses like theft, shoplifting and trespassing. About a dozen are accused of murder, rape, assault and kidnappin

You and others are saying that this is not a big deal?

What I am saying is that minor crimes do not warrant deportation to a high security prison with no recourse, and that the same USA justice and punishment system should apply to everybody. That is what happens in a democracy.

I would agree with that.

There are people in that group with legal work permits fancythat. This could go on ad infinitum. I disagree profoundly with deporting anybody, legal or illegal imigrants included, to a high security facility in a different country to where the crime has been committed, if indeed a crime has been committed, which it hasn’t in over 90% of cases. You can repeat your case as often as you like, I think it is without foundation. It was wrong.

I will try this again.

The 25% number comes only from the small subgroup of aliens that Trump has rounded up, not from the total number of immigrants in the US. There are estimated to be 11 million illegal immigrants in the US. He was targeting criminals in his search, of course the numbers will be higher than the rest of the population.

The 25% number only applies to the group Trump rounded up and does not reflect criminals in the overall population of the 11 million migrants in the US.

fancythat

I wonder if we are talking at cross purposes.

At least 22% of the men on the list have criminal records here in the United States or abroad. The vast majority are for non-violent offenses like theft, shoplifting and trespassing. About a dozen are accused of murder, rape, assault and kidnappin

You and others are saying that this is not a big deal?

What I am saying is that minor crimes do not warrant deportation to a high security prison with no recourse, and that the same USA justice and punishment system should apply to everybody. That is what happens in a democracy.

Convicted not convinced. Or maybe both.

His cabinet is rife with skeletons in cupboards. Just take these 3 for example

"Three of Trump's Cabinet selections have faced allegations of sexual misconduct
Matt Gaetz, Pete Hegseth and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. face questions about their personal actions as well as their professional qualifications ahead of the Senate confirmation process."

www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/three-trumps-cabinet-selections-face-allegations-sexual-misconduct-rcna180872

....and if memory serves, wasn't Trump convinced of....oh I give up. A cabinet of sycophants and personal favourites. Anyone might think a chan saw was in order......

Trump still behaving like a two year old in a tantrum. Still doing us all a favour as those who have closed their eyes to his behaviour and attitude will have to recognise his behaviour now. Still he is definitely getting people to join together to agree what a moron he is . If they are looking at criminals he comes quite high up in the list!!

Wyllow3

"Immigrants in the United States commit crimes at lower rates than the U.S.-born population, notwithstanding the assertion by critics that immigration is linked to higher rates of criminal activity. This reality of reduced criminality, which holds across immigrant groups including unauthorized immigrants, has been demonstrated through research as well as findings for the one state in the United States—Texas—that tracks criminal arrests and convictions by immigration status.

A growing volume of research demonstrates that not only do immigrants commit fewer crimes, but they also do not raise crime rates in the U.S. communities where they settle. In fact, some studies indicate that immigration can lower criminal activity, especially violent crime, in places with inclusive policies and social environments where immigrant populations are well established."

www.migrationpolicy.org/content/immigrants-and-crime

Which all seems at odds with the 25% or 22% or whatever.

Wyllow3

No more or less than the population at large?

The correct answer.

Not 25%!!

"Immigrants in the United States commit crimes at lower rates than the U.S.-born population, notwithstanding the assertion by critics that immigration is linked to higher rates of criminal activity. This reality of reduced criminality, which holds across immigrant groups including unauthorized immigrants, has been demonstrated through research as well as findings for the one state in the United States—Texas—that tracks criminal arrests and convictions by immigration status.

A growing volume of research demonstrates that not only do immigrants commit fewer crimes, but they also do not raise crime rates in the U.S. communities where they settle. In fact, some studies indicate that immigration can lower criminal activity, especially violent crime, in places with inclusive policies and social environments where immigrant populations are well established."

www.migrationpolicy.org/content/immigrants-and-crime

Here is a good look at the historical numbers of immigrants crime.

www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime

No more or less than the population at large?

How much crime amongst immigrants, do you think is acceptable?

I wonder if we are talking at cross purposes.

At least 22% of the men on the list have criminal records here in the United States or abroad. The vast majority are for non-violent offenses like theft, shoplifting and trespassing. About a dozen are accused of murder, rape, assault and kidnappin

You and others are saying that this is not a big deal?

If you read the article, even the 25% isn’t true.

‘At least 22% of the men on the list have criminal records here in the United States or abroad. The vast majority are for non-violent offenses like theft, shoplifting and trespassing. About a dozen are accused of murder, rape, assault and kidnapping.

For 3% of those deported, it is unclear whether a criminal record exists.

But we could not find criminal records for 75% of the Venezuelans - 179 men- now sitting in prison.’

I don’t understand why you are trying to defend this action, the ones responsible for serious crimes, possibly, but the rest?

Whatever way it is talked about, 25% being criminals, is still a ginormous number.

It does not matter what words are used to try and justify/hide/deceive.

Shocking really.

And quite frankly, unfair to those being deceived.

No, they were not all people who were in jail fancythat, many were picked up from the streets or their homes. This article gives more insight.
www.cbsnews.com/news/what-records-show-about-migrants-sent-to-salvadoran-prison-60-minutes-transcript/

The problem is, we have no ides what those crimes are. It could be jaywalking.

That 25% number also does not represent total number of criminals to non criminals in the larger population because he was targeting criminals. Of course the numbers are going to be higher.

The reason why that 75% is so important right now is that Trump told everyone he is only deporting the most dangerous criminals. Except that is not true. He is not finding enough criminals to fulfill his promises, so he is taking non criminals and putting them through the same illegal amd unconstitutional treatment.

He is also deporting immigrants who came here through legal means and who are not criminals.

And lastly, of course, he is sending these people to a max security prison in a different country with absolutely no due process to prove they are criminals and no means to get out.

This went "we need to get out the most dangerous" to "we are going to participate in human rights violations" fairly quickly.

Going by people in jail, as far as I can work.

In the US, the population in jail is 0.5%[in the UK it is 0.7%]

25% of the immigrants with a criminal record, is a ginormous figure.

I think the 25% includes people with any kind of criminal record Chocolatelovinggran, so it will include those with minor offences as well as more serious crimes. Imagine being deported because in your youth you were arrested for something minor, and you are now 30 or 40 years down the line with no further offences.

I think we might all be more than a little perturbed if the percentage of people found guilty and sentenced of a crime were 75% not guilty.
Maybe these deportees are hardened criminals, maybe they're not. The fact that Mr Trump's fans don't like their tattoos isn't enough reason for their removal, in my opinion.
I'm not keen on tattoos myself- but concrete evidence of wrongdoing they are not.

Wyllow3

Yes - although the Supreme Court "recognised" the law, it is now a legal precedent that de facto robbed it of its ability to act without due process.

That is why I started donating to the ACLU.