Is it time to stop paying £££s millions to the French?

glasshalffullagain

Figures? What are the figures in Spain?

My family home was in Spain, they had problems before they joined the EU, still have migrants from North African countries along the southern Costa’s

Australia is nothing like the UK geographically though, it’s hundreds of miles from anywhere else, and boats can’t turn up on an inhospitable, rocky and dangerous coastline hundreds of miles (no exaggeration) from civilisation. It’s a little easier to spot larger vessels and apprehend migrants there because their options are so limited, they can’t survive. It would be interesting to understand the scale of the issues they were having, I just don’t see it being significant in comparison to Europe.

From an Australian government website:

“ Australia's borders are patrolled all day, every day.

Anyone who attempts an unauthorised boat voyage to Australia will be turned back to their point of departure, returned to their home country, or transferred to a third country for processing.
Since 2013, Australia has intercepted every boat attempting to enter illegally. Every vessel is closely watched. There is zero chance of illegal migration to Australia.”

“Report people smugglers.

People smugglers use false promises of settlement in Australia to convince people to hand over their hard earned savings. Do not believe their lies.
No-one who pays a people smuggler for an illegal boat journey to Australia will get what they paid for. People smugglers do not care about your safety or your future. They are only interested in your money.
Stop the criminal people smuggling trade by reporting them to Border Watch.”

Casdon

I don’t envisage many people attempt to cross several hundreds of miles of ocean from Papua New Guinea to Australia on a rubber dinghy FriedGreenTomatoes2.

No they didn’t Casdon. They tried to get to Australia by boats and Australia turned them back. Word got round …

Rwanda was the answer; it would have sent a clear message to both the traffickers and their victims and within a short period of time the whole people trafficking business would have dried up. But Keir knew best. And here we are: 8000 more already and more deaths are inevitable.

vegansrock

The only long term way to stop migration from poor countries is to help improve conditions in those countries.

Absolutely right.

I don’t envisage many people attempt to cross several hundreds of miles of ocean from Papua New Guinea to Australia on a rubber dinghy FriedGreenTomatoes2.

Maybe (like Australia?) we have to be a bit mean and tough to dissuade migrants. In the short term. Then word gets round, the people smugglers can’t sell their misery rides on rubber boats and so the business aspect (money, lots of it) dries up and withers. Australia managed it, surrounded by water. Why can’t we?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I think Terribull it’s because liberals view the world as how they’d like it to be which is often different from the reality of a situation.

I think the reality of the situation is that this is a world wide problem and that there is absolutely no simple solution to be found, in the short term at least.

I cannot think that anyone would wish to see those who arrive illegally in boats treated inhumanely. We cannot stick people back in the boats and push them off out to sea again. If that means I am a liberal, then so be it!

Solutions range from:
- eliminate all cruel regimes so people do not feel the need to flee - can't see that happening anytime soon.
- get rid of all drug and people traffickers and gangs - how I wonder?
- eliminate poverty in the countries from which economic migrants come.
- eliminate evil in the world - hmmm ....

In the meantime we have to deal with what is in front of us. I am looking at the world as it is not how I might want it to be - but I hope I am doing so with compassion and an understanding that there are no simple answers; that the subtleties and complexities of solving this problem are vast.

Yes Casdon it would be a good one!

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I think Terribull it’s because liberals view the world as how they’d like it to be which is often different from the reality of a situation.

Interesting. I think conservatives (small c) believe that everybody else in the world is trying to do them over, which is often different from the reality of a situation. This could be a whole new thread.

I’m not comparing the UK with Europe. That’s their problem to fix. I’m trying to discuss ours.

Figures? What are the figures in Spain?

I think Terribull it’s because liberals view the world as how they’d like it to be which is often different from the reality of a situation.

I suppose I thought that in time, everyone living on these shores would be allocated one….

Gah!
It’s a mess isn’t it, all round? Neither government has achieved anything meaningful. Deportations are way lower than arrivals so they aren’t making much of a dint in the overall figures.

"The Hotel we booked in London was not dated"

Neither was this one, Booking.com Crowne Plaza, Kingston-on-Thames. Prior to turning it over to single male Afghan asylum seekers, it was generally fully booked probably because Hampton Court Palace is very nearby which is a major tourist attraction. So presumably, whatever this hotel chain got from the government was far more than they were pulling in from the public. The hotel overlooks the Thames and would be considered a reasonably attractive place to stay. Local people were pretty nonplussed at the decision to allow it to be used for single young men. It's not as if it had been open that long. I understand now it is available again to paying guests. In contrast a hotel near where my son lives had previously given sanctuary to Afghan families, with no social problems. As someone up thread posted, some of these people will possibly be families who have been headed up by men who have put their lives on the line acting in our interests, of course we should take them in. I just question the wisdom of putting a load of young men in a 4* hotel in a pretty residential area which culminated in a double stabbing.

I don't know why we can't question these issues without the s**t hitting the fan.

Casdon

Shinamae

Luckygirl3

I wonder what people think the solution might be? - and the logistics/finance of making it happen. I would be interested in people's ideas and concrete plans.

Still, no one answers my question as to where these people coming in in their thousands since January are going to be housed?

Some with sponsors or family members who live in the UK already.
Some in the places where people who have since been deported were.
Some in the places where people whose asylum claims have since been accepted were.
Some in the places where new facilities have been created.

I just wonder how much longer we can absorb the numbers of people that just keep coming…
And by the way, I am not a racist. I work with a lot of Indians and they are lovely lovely people.

ID cards would wholly depend on all the countries from which the migrants come having such a system.

ID cards in the UK for those who migrate here does not solve the problem I feel. They would still need to be processed and housed during that process.

How did you feel that ID cards might solve the problem?

Shinamae

Luckygirl3

I wonder what people think the solution might be? - and the logistics/finance of making it happen. I would be interested in people's ideas and concrete plans.

Still, no one answers my question as to where these people coming in in their thousands since January are going to be housed?

Some with sponsors or family members who live in the UK already.
Some in the places where people who have since been deported were.
Some in the places where people whose asylum claims have since been accepted were.
Some in the places where new facilities have been created.

Luckygirl3

I wonder what people think the solution might be? - and the logistics/finance of making it happen. I would be interested in people's ideas and concrete plans.

Still, no one answers my question as to where these people coming in in their thousands since January are going to be housed?

Luckygirl3

I wonder what people think the solution might be? - and the logistics/finance of making it happen. I would be interested in people's ideas and concrete plans.

I’ve given mine. Introduce ID cards here.
Times have changed and we have to move with them.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Someone must have pushed the ‘report’ button.
Not me.

Nor me, I can fight my own battles..

I wonder what people think the solution might be? - and the logistics/finance of making it happen. I would be interested in people's ideas and concrete plans.

It has been taken over by SERCO who make billions, not scruffy black young men in track suits.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is? It was clean and adequate and dated.

The owners sold it as a going concern.

Because they wanted money?