Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

I think I read back in the mists of time, a group of militant trans women lobbied Cow and Gate, manufacturers of baby food that they would withdraw their custom if they didn't stop advertising on MN. Strangely, I'm not sure C&G were too shaken by that ominous threat and continued. Could it be that MN has something in the region of 11 million subscribers, not unsurprisingly Cow and Gate were possibly to conclude a fair proportion of their customer base could well be MNs as opposed to a group of disgruntled trans women who might not be in the market for formula milk and mushy baby food.

Good points raised there Doodledog

Galaxy

Shh now doodledog, it's like Ocado, we need to pretend that didn't happen.

Ocado?🤔

Shh now doodledog, it's like Ocado, we need to pretend that didn't happen.

Luminance

Galaxy

Yes there has been lots of silencing it was a key part of the movement.

This is not the definition of mutual. We must only read back to the lack of mutual respect when I shared my own empirical evidence. Many trans people have been silenced by this debate as well, fearing to come forward and have their voices heard with respect. When there are those that demand that they must come forward to condemn behaviour instead of coming forward as themselves, it is no wonder the divide has become so great that individual voices are silenced and cannot speak through fear of angry response.

We must? Why 'must' we (and again, who are 'we' in this context?).

Don't you remember No Debate? Or the numerous cases of people being hounded out of careers? Or activists disrupting meetings of women, LGB parades or cinema screenings? Of speakers being denied the right to a platform in universities? Of posts on here and elsewhere accusing those who said that men can't become women of Nazism and having 'far right' inclination?

They were all individual voices being silenced and angry responses. We also heard from people working in schools who openly stated that they had been trained to believe in gender dysphoria (despite the tiny number of children diagnosed with it) and that they encouraged trans children to be 'their true selves' and people questioning that had posts deleted.

I will be very pleased if all that silencing stops.

Galaxy

Yes there has been lots of silencing it was a key part of the movement.

This is not the definition of mutual. We must only read back to the lack of mutual respect when I shared my own empirical evidence. Many trans people have been silenced by this debate as well, fearing to come forward and have their voices heard with respect. When there are those that demand that they must come forward to condemn behaviour instead of coming forward as themselves, it is no wonder the divide has become so great that individual voices are silenced and cannot speak through fear of angry response.

Surely the 'oh its the interns fault' is getting a bit old now. They need a new line.

Galaxy

Yes there has been lots of silencing it was a key part of the movement.

So that will be a good place to start showing respect.

Carlotta

Following on from Rosie51's post regarding Ocado withdrawing from Mumsnet because of their "hateful political views;" they're now hastily rowing back These comments are not representative of us as a company, and we believe they were made by a temporary contractor who is no longer with the business. We apologise unreservedly to Mumsnet.

I'd accept that if it hadn't taken them 12 months and a Supreme Court hearing to distance themselves from it. Rank stupidity to piss off your main demographic customer base.

I didn't know about Ocado.

Not that I use them (they were unable to accommodate me during lockdowns).

Yes there has been lots of silencing it was a key part of the movement.

Mutual respect has its own clear definition. Women have their protections, trans people have their protections. Simple acknowledgement of each other, our struggles and our journeys. People aren't evil for expressing their own protected beliefs. The evil only comes from those trying to silence them.

Well yes Mumsnet must be the majority of Ocados customer base. Fools that they are.

Mutual respect . . .
Has to be a two way thing and possibly needs some exemplars.
Maybe I’ll suggest a couple.
Everyone, male or female should stay out of places, events etc where they’re not entitled to be.
That will be a start.

No one, male or female should threaten death to anyone or demand that someone lose their jobs for speaking the truth.

People’s beliefs should be equally respected.
You can no longer say you’re a woman unless you’re a woman.
However, you should be able to say you’re trans without fear because that’s what you believe.

Others should be able to say you can’t change sex, without fear because that’s what they believe.

Any other examples?

Have you any examples of mutual respect that will apply both ways Luminance?

Following on from Rosie51's post regarding Ocado withdrawing from Mumsnet because of their "hateful political views;" they're now hastily rowing back These comments are not representative of us as a company, and we believe they were made by a temporary contractor who is no longer with the business. We apologise unreservedly to Mumsnet.

I'd accept that if it hadn't taken them 12 months and a Supreme Court hearing to distance themselves from it. Rank stupidity to piss off your main demographic customer base.

Looking at today’s headlines doesn’t indicate respect from transactivists towards the ruling of the Supreme Court. On the contrary, there’s much shouting and suggestions of being victimised and marginalised. Absolutely no respect for the brave women whose challenge to nonsense resulted in this Ruling

The lack of respect for the nurse who was called such a vile name by the prisoner is a case in point.

What happened to the law regarding racial hate crime in her case?

Luminance

I would have thought that the scientific research will continue to help the medical community and trans people themselves understand what is happening to them and why. Next steps might include ensuring facilities meet requirements for comfort and dignity when changing or using a bathroom. I would hope that a mutual respect and understanding might be formed and that this doesn't further impact people's mental health or how they engage with each other in public.

Quite so. Mutual respect would go a long way, as the lack of respect for women in general and those of us who have dared to speak against the TWAW mantra in particular has led to the need for this ruling.

Another victory for basic common sense Iam64.

How did it get this far?

I would have thought that the scientific research will continue to help the medical community and trans people themselves understand what is happening to them and why. Next steps might include ensuring facilities meet requirements for comfort and dignity when changing or using a bathroom. I would hope that a mutual respect and understanding might be formed and that this doesn't further impact people's mental health or how they engage with each other in public.

And - a man who rapes using his penis can no longer claim to be a woman and have his crime recorded as a rape committed by a woman
Apologies for grammar - the relief gone to my head

Thanks MollyGo; Maya Forstater is an awesome woman, has never lost courage despite facing bullying, harassment and intimidation on a grand scale. She's sacrificed a great deal to get us where we are today.

Luminance

The courts have answered. It is time to forge a new chapter with dignity and respect.

I agree, so perhaps some people will stop insisting now that a human person can change sex.
Or that a man who insists he is a woman persists in encroaching on single sex spaces designated for women.
And that those Health Authorities will apologise in full to the nurses so shamefully treated.

Iam64

Mollygo, thanks for the detailed update.

The supreme court’s ruling isn’t complicated or difficult to understand. The radio/tv coverage seems determined to present it alongside trans activists who try to distort and present it as both wrong and badly presented

None so blind Iam.
Well said. 👏

*tails

Businesses hijacked by Stonewall’s league tables will be chasing their tales on this issue for months to come. And activists won’t give up. It’s what they thrive on.