Trump versus Harvard - and freedom to learn

Wyllow, reference to your OP:

Hollywood may yet ride to the rescue.

I listened to Harvard speak out on the issue on a panel on tv last year. I was embarrassed for them. How they couldn’t read the room.

Wyllow, thanks for the excellent link which I read.

However, do you agree that popular awareness is more easily enlightened by human interest stories ?

For example "To Kill a Mocking Bird" .

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Galaxy

I would think it was a compliment to be refused by harvard to be fair. The first thing that comes to mind is antisemitism.

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Asked and answered Thu 17-Apr-25 21:37:47.

Harvard matters are are part of a wider movement in a number of areas against the imposition of tyrannical rule for example where Due Process is being ignored, Press Freedoms is being attacked and limited, individuals personal emails are being combed for "anti Trump" and "anti Christian "sentiments" and so much more

outlined very effectively here

theconversation.com/donald-trumps-chilling-effect-on-free-speech-and-dissent-is-threatening-us-democracy-253139

PS God help us!

Whitewavemark wrote:

" free speech comes with a few limitations as you are well aware. The law is there for a reason."

The number and quality of "limitations" identifies who one is politically and psychologically.

For instance, I gather WWM is liberal on both counts. I certainly am as regards limits of free speech, not to mention free assembly , and free thought.
Under martial law, if I believed the war was just, I'd comply with stricter limits.

Galaxy

I would think it was a compliment to be refused by harvard to be fair. The first thing that comes to mind is antisemitism.

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foxie, I presume Galaxy means that universities too include politicians.

Galaxy wrote:

"Indeed you fight for the right of the speech you hate. We have been saying it for years."

Also and more generally ; to be silent is to consent. Human rights must continually be defended every where no exceptions

Galaxy

The universities aren't interested in free speech either, that's the point.

Surely the point is that anyone who believes in "free speech" will not try to shut down the "free speech" of others with whom they disagree.

And who gets to decide those limitations Whitewave. Perhaps Trump is deciding what the limitations are now. It's not fun is it?

I ask again who is “you”.

If you mean posters then say so, if you mean a particular person then say so.

Tbh I think you are getting it all wrong.

I may disagree strongly with certain views, but of course I would fight for the right for anyone to say what they think.

However - free speech comes with a few limitations as you are well aware. The law is there for a reason.

More and more evidence that it's sheep and goats time.

So you don't stop the speech of the women who say 'men can't be women', you don't stop the speech of those who try to talk about Bidens son on twitter, you don't stop the speech of those who are against abortion - when those instances happen people need to speak up or a few years later they find their speech curtailed by in this case the right. I can't count how many times I have seen free speech mocked on here or dismissed as a culture war.

Another attack is taking place on Harvard and other universities as regards international student visas from overseas students, now threatening to cut international students altogether

Trumps attacks in education and learning are unprecedented as they are demanding whole departments are cut, that libraries cannot carry banned texts, basically that the only the current governments ideologies are valid. He says Harvard (and other universities of course) is a "joke" "Teaching hate and stupidity"

It includes control of what they teach, who they hire, what they research. It is unprecedented.

Who is “we” and “you”?

You need to make yourself clearer.

Indeed you fight for the right of the speech you hate. We have been saying it for years. Where were you all?

Yes, I think that the point being missed by a lot of posters is the point of principle.

That is

Governments have no right to interfere in what universities teach.

Whether you agree or not what is being taught is immaterial.

University freedom of thought and speech must be protected from the far right and far left, Trump, no-platformers and other zealots.

The debate about freedom of ideas and freedom of speech within universities has gone on for over a decade, I have no idea how people have missed it, I suspect it has been worse over here because we don't have anything comparable to the first amendment. It is very difficult for those of us who have been raising concerns for years to now be expected to be agitated simply because it is now the right behaving in an authoritarian manner.

I'm not sure that a single lecturer represents Harvard’s ideology though.

I think it was her close affiliation with WoLF that raised the alarm to be honest.

Obviously I only know what I've read from over here in the UK.

Er in this country the government did intervene.

I don't want any government to tell any university what they may or may not teach.
Whatever views may be held on the behaviours of any institution, these should be open to public debate.
Mr Trump expects total obedience to his every prejudice.
No one in Britain would expect Oxbridge to bow to the whim of Mr Starmer, or any of his predecessors.

Yes, and numerous other examples of universities behaving in an authoritarian manner, as I say in this country it required legislation to modify that behaviour. I am just agog at people now using the cry of 'free speech', particularly in relation to certain institutions. Where were those people in the last few years.

Well, whatever you mean I found this encouraging.

www.thecrimson.com/article/2025/4/18/garber-trump-harvard-donors/

In the 24 hours after Harvard President Alan M. Garber ’76 announced that he would not comply with the White House, the University received more than 3,800 online donations totaling more than $1 million, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The surge — more than 40 times Harvard’s average daily intake in April — was a striking show of support for Garber’s forceful stance

Some regular givers have upped their donations. I hope the universities (and scholarships and awards) can ride this administration out.