@GaslightObstructProj
The person you are lashing out at about the "rubbish" comment wasn't arguing with you. They were talking about Dump and comparing him to Boris Johnson. It seems you thought they were talking about you for some reason and then went on to clap back at them. I agree with your points but just wanted to point that out to you.
Also as a side note: I don't know who posted this little piece first, but I remember seeing this exact same post word for word on a Reddit comment, posted on the same day as this on R/AskUS. So looks like we got a copycat on our hands!
Gransnet forums
News & politics
Want to understand Trump supporters?
(30 Posts)Despite his clear lack of personal religious conviction - his disinterest in or ignorance of the core tenets of any faith - Donald Trump successfully aligned himself with conservative Christian voters. His supporters were willing to overlook his character flaws, his evident disdain for religious principles, and his personal immorality. What mattered was that he, in their view, would defend their values and deliver on their agenda.
For many religious voters, Trump became a symbol of power and vengeance - someone who would "fight for them," not out of any spiritual conviction, but because he promised to uphold their social and political priorities. This willingness to overlook his hypocrisy, to accept him as a "savior" despite his blatant disregard for their faith’s core values, reveals the extent to which personal grievances, power, and tribalism outweighed any moral consistency.
The progression can be traced back to a cultural shift rooted in denial. The advent of Trumpism marked a profound moment in American history - an era in which facts, reason, and objective truth became increasingly irrelevant to large swaths of the population. This denial was not born from ignorance alone; it was a strategic decision to reject the uncomfortable realities of a changing world.
Trump and his movement thrived on this denial. At its core, Trumpism is about rejecting the facts that contradict the deeply held beliefs of its followers. A significant aspect of this was the rejection of inconvenient truths about race, gender, climate change, and science. As America changed, these groups faced a crisis of identity - an identity deeply rooted in outdated worldviews that were increasingly being challenged by social progress, scientific understanding, and demographic shifts. In response, Trump and his movement provided a simple, yet powerful antidote: denial.
Trump's followers were not only reacting to external changes, but to internal discomfort. They hated the idea that science contradicted their religion, that their hypocrisy was being exposed, and that their views on race and gender were increasingly considered offensive or outdated. To cope with these revelations, they did not engage with the facts or attempt to reconcile their beliefs with a modern world. Instead, they simply denied the facts -choosing comfort over truth, and aligning themselves with a figure who, rather than addressing uncomfortable realities, validated their grievances.
Trump, as the leader of this movement, embodied and reinforced this rejection of reality. He empowered his followers to believe in an alternative version of events, a version where they were always the victims, where their discomfort was justified, and where their worldview was never in need of change. Trump didn't need to deliver coherent policy solutions or rational arguments. He only needed to assert that their fears and frustrations were valid, that the facts were lies, and that he would fight for their right to remain in denial.
This denial is not just an individual failing - it is a systemic disease that undermines the democratic process. Trumpism capitalized on a toxic mix of denial and hatred. Many of his supporters found themselves not only rejecting uncomfortable truths but also fostering a deep resentment toward other Americans - particularly "liberals". This hatred became a driving force so powerful that many voters were willing to act against their own self-interest if it meant causing harm to their perceived enemies. They were driven less by the desire for personal gain and more by the satisfaction of seeing their "enemies" suffer.
Allira
Casdon
To an extent it does, but coming on this forum and telling people that they are wrong in the way you just did is not going to influence anybody in the way you would like it to, it will just put peoples backs up. We are not USA voters, and we see the situation in the USA from a different perspective, whether or not we support what he is doing.
Casdon Goodness, what a lot of new posters all of a sudden!
How come Gransnet is suddenly so popular?
😯
I think it might be a ‘key phrase’ scenario? If somebody types in, say, ‘Trump is wonderful’ and searches it on the net, it might bring up that somebody on Gransnet said that, so they get to the site that way.
Let me put it simply. Trump did not win the last election. The Democrats gave it to him on a plate.
America has got the government it voted for. The fact that all these new GN members do not like it is tough, but life is like that.
The number of American members of GN is not insignificant, but the majority are not American citizens and voters, we just have to live with the results that American voters as a whole have voted for.
If the US citizens who are bringing US internal politics to GN to discuss want to do something to help their country, then I suggest that they become active members of one of their countries political parties and start working in a positive way with voters to understand how they think, have sympathy for it and use their new found compassion to try and move things forward in a positive way.
Currently reading their posts, one's only reaction is that well known phrase from Romeo and Juliet, ^ a plague on both your houses^ , A plague o' both your houses!" is a famous line from William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. It's spoken by Mercutio after he's mortally wounded in a fight between the Capulets and Montagues. The line expresses a curse on both feuding families, blaming them for the conflict that led to his death. It seems very approrpiate for the USA at the moment.
Casdon
To an extent it does, but coming on this forum and telling people that they are wrong in the way you just did is not going to influence anybody in the way you would like it to, it will just put peoples backs up. We are not USA voters, and we see the situation in the USA from a different perspective, whether or not we support what he is doing.
Casdon Goodness, what a lot of new posters all of a sudden!
How come Gransnet is suddenly so popular?
😯
I can see that people have tried to engage, but the O/P is ill written with bits that make sense but overall confusing and doesn't help understand the issues.
both the O/P and the above poster are brand new to GN (done a search) and could even be the same poster, and insulting to posters.
I don't see it as productive to engage
Ok lets add a UK flavor by talking about Brexit.
"Trump, as the leader of this movement, embodied and reinforced this rejection of reality. He empowered his followers to believe in an alternative version of events, a version where they were always the victims, where their discomfort was justified, and where their worldview was never in need of change. Trump didn't need to deliver coherent policy solutions or rational arguments. He only needed to assert that their fears and frustrations were valid, that the facts were lies, and that he would fight for their right to remain in denial."
Replace trump with whoever was in power during that time (Boris Johnson if I remember correctly? Another blonde buffoon with a poor haircut thats analogous to trump) and that paragraph still applies to the UK.
It was that same denial and hatred of others that caused Brexit voters to vote against theit own self-interest.
To an extent it does, but coming on this forum and telling people that they are wrong in the way you just did is not going to influence anybody in the way you would like it to, it will just put peoples backs up. We are not USA voters, and we see the situation in the USA from a different perspective, whether or not we support what he is doing.
Trumpism trascends borders.
Which is self-evident, even on this supposedly UK forum.
GaslightObstructProj
ect This is classic Gaslighting and DARVOing (Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim & Offender).
Minorities were excluded, bullied, beaten, lynched both culturally and systemically, for generations (spanning centuries) that still persists (in certain parts of America) to this day.
Despite ALL of that, the prevailing Liberal attitude was a better world for all, including those who oppressed them all this time. Because, perhaps naively, they hoped that if conservatives ever understood the truth (that all their problems stem from billionaires and not minorities), that they could eventually change one day.
That attitude in Liberals only started to shift 5 years ago, during covid. When the stupidity (for lack of a better term) of conservatives started to directly affect their lives. Infecting (and even killing) them and their loved ones, simply because conservatives chose to (foolishly, idiotically, truly imbecilically) trust trump & fox news over science.
And even now, when there are women gruesomely dying completely preventable deaths, when minorities are being picked off the street by unmarked men and cars and being deported to a foreign country without any due process, when people are being fired and their history being erased simply because they were the wrong skin color, sexuality or gender.
You STILL act like you're the victim here, worthy of ANY compassion.
Are you that much of a baby? That you can't come to the right conclusion on your own unless you're coddled the entire way there? P.S. Even when you are being coddled, you still won't change. You never change. That's what makes you a conservative in the first place.
Compassion or no compassion, it makes no actual difference. This is just another bad-faith tactic to avoid the real conversation here.
Do you realise that this is a UK site? What do you think your aggressive post is going to achieve?
Ok Cossy, go on. Unpick it than.
Only rubbish if you're ignorant to reality.
This isn't "kids peeing in a litter box at school because they identify as cats" or "kids are having trans surgery at school" rubbish.
Actual women have died and will continue to die because they had pregnancies go wrong in a wrong (hillybilly, god-fearing) state.
Here's one woman who didn't have to die, Josseli Barnica. I can provide a handful, but I would argue even one is too many because this is truly idoitic and should NEVER happen in a first world country.
Since you don't actually say what I said was rubbish, I can only guess what you thought what my weakest point is. But I can provide evidence for every statement Ive made.
winterwhite
The man has the ability to sound convincing, whatever rubbish he is talking. Boris Johnson has a touch of the same. That goes a long way.
I so agree, but of course once you start unpicking their speeches it all come tumbling down.
When BJ was our PM there were people who’d believe black was white if he told them so.
The man has the ability to sound convincing, whatever rubbish he is talking. Boris Johnson has a touch of the same. That goes a long way.
This is classic Gaslighting and DARVOing (Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim & Offender).
Minorities were excluded, bullied, beaten, lynched both culturally and systemically, for generations (spanning centuries) that still persists (in certain parts of America) to this day.
Despite ALL of that, the prevailing Liberal attitude was a better world for all, including those who oppressed them all this time. Because, perhaps naively, they hoped that if conservatives ever understood the truth (that all their problems stem from billionaires and not minorities), that they could eventually change one day.
That attitude in Liberals only started to shift 5 years ago, during covid. When the stupidity (for lack of a better term) of conservatives started to directly affect their lives. Infecting (and even killing) them and their loved ones, simply because conservatives chose to (foolishly, idiotically, truly imbecilically) trust trump & fox news over science.
And even now, when there are women gruesomely dying completely preventable deaths, when minorities are being picked off the street by unmarked men and cars and being deported to a foreign country without any due process, when people are being fired and their history being erased simply because they were the wrong skin color, sexuality or gender.
You STILL act like you're the victim here, worthy of ANY compassion.
Are you that much of a baby? That you can't come to the right conclusion on your own unless you're coddled the entire way there? P.S. Even when you are being coddled, you still won't change. You never change. That's what makes you a conservative in the first place.
Compassion or no compassion, it makes no actual difference. This is just another bad-faith tactic to avoid the real conversation here.
Liberal Tears wrote:
" Trumpism capitalized on a toxic mix of denial and hatred. Many of his supporters found themselves not only rejecting uncomfortable truths but also fostering a deep resentment toward other Americans - particularly "liberals". This hatred became a driving force so powerful that many voters were willing to act against their own self-interest if it meant causing harm to their perceived enemies. They were driven less by the desire for personal gain and more by the satisfaction of seeing their "enemies" suffer. "
Note the word "Hatred". Institutionalised hatred is fear which is rationalised by scapegoating sections of society. In Trump's case scapegoating the liberal Christian, the welfare socialist, the intellectual, the artist, the stranger in our midst.
A new organisation called Faithful America is for Christians and friends of Christians who prefer The Beatitudes and reasonable truth, to Fascism masquerading as good and true.
act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/christian-nationalism-resources/
M0nica
DeepDenial
No, but it seems like a clear example of the denial taking over their lives that's mentioned in the OP.
May be arrogant, but doesn't make it any less true.
Saying you had no choice but to turn to fascism when faced with smugness isn't the great argument you think it is.I am rather saying that if the opposition to Trump had some compassion, understanding and care for their fellow citizens to really understand why they voted the way they did rather than condemn them in the unfeeling and arrogant way it does. If they had put forward alternative policies and ideas that assuaged their fears and offered hope for the future, then the result could be different.
But if you live in a country where the overwhelming ethic is that of dog eat dog and people are blamed for being poor, what do you expect?
Yes- this.
Has any level of critical thinking left the building?
I think you have a lost cause there Liberal. Best to try to find a brain in a water melon.
The photo of the meeting between Trump and Zelensky yesterday, could be the start of a different Trump, we will see,
Bias and prejudice always come from a place of fear. If people feel safe they do not wish ill-will on anyone. Achieving that in a complex society is very difficult though...
DeepDenial
No, but it seems like a clear example of the denial taking over their lives that's mentioned in the OP.
May be arrogant, but doesn't make it any less true.
Saying you had no choice but to turn to fascism when faced with smugness isn't the great argument you think it is.
I am rather saying that if the opposition to Trump had some compassion, understanding and care for their fellow citizens to really understand why they voted the way they did rather than condemn them in the unfeeling and arrogant way it does. If they had put forward alternative policies and ideas that assuaged their fears and offered hope for the future, then the result could be different.
But if you live in a country where the overwhelming ethic is that of dog eat dog and people are blamed for being poor, what do you expect?
I understand Trump supporters. I can’t stand the Orange Man-Child but I can see that he appeals to a certain sub-strata of society.
Shades of everyone is stupid and gullible except me ? That is the very condescending , judgemental attitude that gives Trump his power. Nothing is that simple …
This comic comes to mind
No, but it seems like a clear example of the denial taking over their lives that's mentioned in the OP.
May be arrogant, but doesn't make it any less true.
Saying you had no choice but to turn to fascism when faced with smugness isn't the great argument you think it is.
Is this an example of the AI everyone keeps saying will take over our lives?
🤔
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