Sir Keir Starmer’s speech this morning (12/05/25)

Absolutely Cossy, we have had enough of the 'charisma' and 'charm' of Trump, Farage and the like. Slow and steady gets there in the end.

growstuff

Boz Please could you explain. If the complaint from the "Red Wall" is that immigrants are taking our jobs, I would have thought that voters would be pleased that the government is making it more difficult for immigrants "to take our jobs". If it's actually true that immigrants are doing jobs which current UK residents could do, surely there should now be more opportunities and there's no excuse not to do the jobs.

What would Reform actually do to appease these people? What on earth do they actually want (apart from having a big moan)?

PS. What exactly do you mean by the "ethnic" vote? If you mean people with brown or black skin whose background might not be white British, that includes many people who were born in the UK. If you mean recent immigrants (presumably including those with white skin), most of them aren't British citizens and don't have a vote.

👏👏👏👏

We all have our own allegiances and views and opinions, but at times I puzzle and despair! According to some of the media, some of the public and a few of our Posters Starmer is “dull” “leftie” “too right” “too centralist” “boring” “a liar” “doing nothing” “having knee jerk reactions”

Tbh Starmer bashing is becoming somewhat dull and boring in itself!

Growstuff

I am talking about Perception which doesn't always go hand-in-hand with Facts and Figures or Logical Argument. It is a feeling that is hard to override and I think the Labour party should not ignore it because, surely as night follows day, Farage will not.

”As I wrote on another thread, then why oh why did he not make sure it was released before the Local Election? Answer? He prob misjudged things and did not think Reform would do as well as they did. Another "mistake" on his part. Sorry, but saying it has been months in the making, only makes things worse. In my opinion”

Why should Starmer jump to Reform’s agenda and release this white paper before the local elections? He’s released it when he sees fit.

Maybe he’s not actually as concerned about the local election results as the media would have is believe. He’s not a stupid man - he knows that the new Reform UK elected representatives will now have to be held accountable for their words and actions … and that’s already going well for Reform isn’t it (*not*)

The electorate can see with their own eyes what a Reform future might look like - a complete horror show!

Maremia

Absolutely Cossy, we have had enough of the 'charisma' and 'charm' of Trump, Farage and the like. Slow and steady gets there in the end.

Johnson (allegedly) had charisma! Look how they ended for him and all of us!

LizzieDrip

^”As I wrote on another thread, then why oh why did he not make sure it was released before the Local Election? Answer? He prob misjudged things and did not think Reform would do as well as they did. Another "mistake" on his part. Sorry, but saying it has been months in the making, only makes things worse. In my opinion”^

Why should Starmer jump to Reform’s agenda and release this white paper before the local elections? He’s released it when he sees fit.

Maybe he’s not actually as concerned about the local election results as the media would have is believe. He’s not a stupid man - he knows that the new Reform UK elected representatives will now have to be held accountable for their words and actions … and that’s already going well for Reform isn’t it (*not*)

The electorate can see with their own eyes what a Reform future might look like - a complete horror show!

It might not have been ready to release earlier. It’s not just Starmer is it, it is the many people involved in putting together a White Paper, it’s not a kids essay!

Millie22

He's clearly worried and so he should be after telling so many lies.

Perhaps pressure from his own party has forced him to address the immigration issue and the rise in Reform.

Can you list the ’so many lies’ he has told, please?

Boz

Growstuff

I am talking about Perception which doesn't always go hand-in-hand with Facts and Figures or Logical Argument. It is a feeling that is hard to override and I think the Labour party should not ignore it because, surely as night follows day, Farage will not.

Thanks for explaining. I agree that voters (sadly) don't always deal with facts. There's a tendency to vote viscerally rather than rationally.

Quote eazybee Mon 12-May-25 10:52:11
I heard the very silly Bev Turner on GB news this morning, ask where the care workers were going to come from: 'after all you can't expect a 22 year old youth empty bedpans, can you?'
Why not?

There is more to do when emptying bedpans than carrying from the bed to the waste room, bottoms , vulvas,to wash, cream on skin when sore
You have no problem with a 22 year old doing this to youI am many sure would

LizzieDrip

^”As I wrote on another thread, then why oh why did he not make sure it was released before the Local Election? Answer? He prob misjudged things and did not think Reform would do as well as they did. Another "mistake" on his part. Sorry, but saying it has been months in the making, only makes things worse. In my opinion”^

Why should Starmer jump to Reform’s agenda and release this white paper before the local elections? He’s released it when he sees fit.

Maybe he’s not actually as concerned about the local election results as the media would have is believe. He’s not a stupid man - he knows that the new Reform UK elected representatives will now have to be held accountable for their words and actions … and that’s already going well for Reform isn’t it (*not*)

The electorate can see with their own eyes what a Reform future might look like - a complete horror show!

I was reading over the weekend that much of labours votes now come not so much from the traditional working class but from the young professional highly educated vote.

This group are far less interested in immigration than say reform voters, who tend to be those educated until school leaving age.

I guess many of that group perhaps feel threatened in the job market from immigration, but now the less skilled jobs would appear to be kept for the U.K. residents, so perhaps that will help mitigate those fears?

Fancythat
sorry, but saying it’s been months in the making only makes things worse
By that one sentence you expose your ignorance into what is an extremely complex situation.

I think what this plan should do is remove a lot of the ‘they are stealing our jobs’ perception because the people who say that tend to be those who are potentially competing with immigrants for lower paid roles, not graduate level posts.

The greater challenge for the government and agencies is going to be coercing the people who they will be removing benefits from, and pushing back to work, to actually do the type of work that immigrants currently do.

There is always going to be a disgruntled minority, whatever the government does to address employment, throughout history that has proved to be the case.

But years ago, most nurses who did the ‘caring’ jobs, involving bedpans and personal care, many of these student nurses would be qualified by the time they were 22.

Why does 22 seem too young in 2025?

petra

Fancythat
sorry, but saying it’s been months in the making only makes things worse
By that one sentence you expose your ignorance into what is an extremely complex situation.

I believe a Green paper is produced first, discussed then a White paper publish - my understanding is this process, on average, takes around 12 weeks, longer if the suggestions are more complex, which this is, it can take longer and of course, this is just the start of the process to making it law.

Still at least we know our legislation does go through due process, at least we don’t have “Executive Orders” !

Calendargirl

But years ago, most nurses who did the ‘caring’ jobs, involving bedpans and personal care, many of these student nurses would be qualified by the time they were 22.

Why does 22 seem too young in 2025?

Indeed!

Primrose53

As usual Starmer looked like a scared rabbit caught in the headlights.

Where are these people who are going to fill jobs in areas where we need workers going to live? They couldn’t afford a mortgage and private rental prices have now gone crazy. Plus landlords now require large deposits, excellent references and credit checks.

Yes he does always look just like that! Apparently he said that he doesnt understand or like politics!

If a degree is needed to migrate to UK surely it would be wise to study English too, at least in some part of your education.

Believe it when l see it in action. I really do despise labour, not doing national inquiries into the grooming gangs and taking away the winter fuel payrment , raising taxes etc etc....They had previous knowledge about the so called black hole, there wasn't one, they made it up to cover the massive pay increases they gave to the train underground workers etc. Not one of them is affected by all the things going on in this country, that's why they do not give a damm...
This country is on its knees and no one does anything about it....

Well at least he is accepting that the problem has now reached massive proportions.
Why do politicians take so long to act?

easybee 22 years old and still a youth! Goodness, at what age does someone become an adult. Talk about pandering, do those on nyrsing courses at 18 years not confront a bedban, catheter in their training. No wonder the standard of nursing seems to have deteriorated to basically ticking a patients recird sheet, can't have them dealing with basic human functions. I despair!

I think this will cause care home reruitment problems. UK unemployed don't want the jobs. The obvious outcome is the care home companies will raise wages to increase recruitment and preserve their profit margins by raising care home fees. This will put pressure on pensioners to pay more and ultimately on local authorities picking up the fees of those who run out of money.

lafergar

I wonder where people are going to learn English? There is practically nothing available. From their phones I suppose.

There are excellent online courses.

Students from around the world often learn English online with approved colleges before they apply to emigrate to countries where English is the official language.

Horses- stable doors - bolted. 🐎

AGAA4

Legal migration has become a problem too. Yvette Cooper is allowing only those with a degree into the UK. There are too many low skilled foreign workers she said and believes they haven't been good for the UK.
I think that care workers need qualifications and to be paid much more. I think if the pay and conditions were better more British people would do the job.

Yvette Cooper is allowing only those with a degree into the UK.
That's rather short-sighted. With the number of houses Labour intends to build in the next few years, they are going to need skilled workers because we have a shortage. Whilst they don't necessarily need a degree to work as a bricklayer, carpenter, plasterer, plumber, roofer, they certainly need to have served an apprenticeship and be skilled.

Teazel2

Primrose53

As usual Starmer looked like a scared rabbit caught in the headlights.

Where are these people who are going to fill jobs in areas where we need workers going to live? They couldn’t afford a mortgage and private rental prices have now gone crazy. Plus landlords now require large deposits, excellent references and credit checks.

Yes he does always look just like that! Apparently he said that he doesnt understand or like politics!

Teazel

and where does he say he he doesn't understand or like politics? A source

"apparently" is not good enough when you make accusations.

Primrose well if there are immigrants doing the jobs in the area, where do they live? Presumably they must have somewhere. This makes no sense.