Sir Keir Starmer’s speech this morning (12/05/25)

Grantanow

I worry that in the eyes of many Starmer has validated Reform's racist views. Copying Refom is not a good idea. Most people are far more concerned about the cost of living, the NHS, etc., than immigration and cutting care home- related visas means poorer services for care home residents.

But people claim that being concerned about immigration isn't racist.

My GP was born in Lagos (I know because he told me); my breast cancer consultant was born in India (I know because he told me); my skin cancer consultant was born in the Netherlands ( I know because I looked up her CV); the doctor who treated my heart attack is German (I know because he has a German name and an accent and I asked him - we chatted in German).

Well, those that we spoke to and engaged with did not have English accents, but I take your point, and agree.

My surgeon was from Ghana - I know because he told me in conversation. My anaesthetist was from Australia and my assistant surgeon was Spanish.

Whitewavemark2

Well, my DH had the absolutely exact opposite experience. Most of the hospital staff including the doctors, consultants etc were from overseas.

All exemplary, kind and efficient.

Most had immigrated into the UK? How did you find out did you question every one about their country of origin, or did you just assume if they had a foreign sounding name or different skin colour they were from 'overseas'? One of my daughters-in-law could fulfil that criteria yet she's a second generation born UK citizen.
Too many assumptions in general are made about people based on skin colour and names.

I live in a nursing home in South Wales, the large majority of
carers and nurses are Welsh, there are also carers and nurses
from India, Nigeria, Romania, several are husbands and wives,
the married couples, one works night shift one day, they work the same days so have time together as families, they are so
valued here by residents and fellow carers

lafergar

*Not a fan of Farage but at least he does what he says he will*

Do you have any examples of this please?

Quite. The whole point of the way Trump, Johnson, Farage, etc., do politics is to offer the left-wing policies and far-right morality that those who feel they are not heard want to hear. Those left-wing policies will not be kept; just the reverse, those who voted for these people end up being the ones getting hurt. The far-right morality goes to such a level that it hurts innocent people in such a way that even supporters are shocked.

This is happening in America now. Trump's popularity is falling. It happened under Johnson. It would happen if Farage or his like were ever to get power because self-serving power is all they want.

Sorry to anyone who has received bad care.
Truly awful.

I am going to wait and see what happens about Uk care workers.
Let's hope they are available, up to the job, and good at it.

What I would like to add, is that bad behaviour is not all one way.

I witnessed a number of outright racial abuse by patients towards the nurses. Quite appalling, and what I’m not prepared to quote on here except to put on a mild comparative abuse - one patient insisted on calling a young Zimbabwe nurse “niglet” she reacted not at all and was polite, kind and cheerful. Later he took to calling her Pollyanna.

So do understand that this is not all one way.

Incidentally I hope you sent a complaint into the hospital.
A friend of mine is involved in a legal battle with the NHS over shocking negligence shown to her last year.

Primrose53

Luckygirl3

My point was simply that good carers are special people and to be valued. It is too simple to say that a vacancy caused by not employing a person who has moved here from abroad can be easily filled by a British native who is unemployed. Vulnerable people deserve the best, whatever their nationality. That should be the priority in the care sector.

My husband has recently had 3 months in hospital. He and another man shared a room. There were two young, very black men working night shifts. Maybe Somalian? They were totally not interested in their jobs or the patients. One night my husband buzzed and asked for a couple of urine bottles for the night. One of them actually threw them at him. His room mate had trouble with his catheter and needed moving into a comfortable position. The other carer just dragged him up the bed and he was screaming in pain.

Their English was dreadful and they looked as though they had not been here long. We don’t want or need people like them.

That’s terrible Primrose 🤬 and they won’t be the only ones.

Did you report them?

Whitewavemark2

Well, my DH had the absolutely exact opposite experience. Most of the hospital staff including the doctors, consultants etc were from overseas.

All exemplary, kind and efficient.

As were all the rest of the staff here but these young men seemed poorly educated and not interested in their work.

Well, my DH had the absolutely exact opposite experience. Most of the hospital staff including the doctors, consultants etc were from overseas.

All exemplary, kind and efficient.

Luckygirl3

My point was simply that good carers are special people and to be valued. It is too simple to say that a vacancy caused by not employing a person who has moved here from abroad can be easily filled by a British native who is unemployed. Vulnerable people deserve the best, whatever their nationality. That should be the priority in the care sector.

My husband has recently had 3 months in hospital. He and another man shared a room. There were two young, very black men working night shifts. Maybe Somalian? They were totally not interested in their jobs or the patients. One night my husband buzzed and asked for a couple of urine bottles for the night. One of them actually threw them at him. His room mate had trouble with his catheter and needed moving into a comfortable position. The other carer just dragged him up the bed and he was screaming in pain.

Their English was dreadful and they looked as though they had not been here long. We don’t want or need people like them.

Grantanow

I worry that in the eyes of many Starmer has validated Reform's racist views. Copying Refom is not a good idea. Most people are far more concerned about the cost of living, the NHS, etc., than immigration and cutting care home- related visas means poorer services for care home residents.

I agree.

I did try posting a link to the government Social Attitudes survey (current release, April 2025) where immigration was, IIRC, 7th on the list of concerns. Cost of living & NHS were way ahead in the rankings. But the government (Morgan McSweeny?) seems more interested in trying to outReform Reform than to address higher ranking concerns.

I worry that in the eyes of many Starmer has validated Reform's racist views. Copying Refom is not a good idea. Most people are far more concerned about the cost of living, the NHS, etc., than immigration and cutting care home- related visas means poorer services for care home residents.

growstuff

Doodledog I haven't once claimed that the random, unemployed Brits are thick or racist. That's your interpretation.

Let's see what happens when the supply of cheap foreign labour dries up. In theory, if all those foreigners really were stealing jobs, unemployment will reduce drastically.

Here we go again. I didn't say you said that, and I didn't interpret your post that way. I said that the idea that jobs are not lost and wages are not suppressed is not true, so what you did say was rather simplistic.

The rest was an extension of that, but not aimed at you. I posted before editing, and maybe it wasn't clear enough that I was talking generally, about things I hear from friends who want to sound inclusive yet are disparaging about Brexiteers/Reform voters/Mail readers using generalisations that would send them into apoplexy if used against other groups.

I agree that the UK needs people to do a range of jobs - look what's happened in hospitality, and how much prices for building work have risen since Brexit, and how the quality of fruit and veg has declined as there are fewer people willing to pick it. I'm not anti-immigration at all. I'm just saying that it's much easier to take a broad view when your own job or wages are not impacted.

A failure to realise that is, IMO, why Reform has the support it does. People are just fed up with being told they have no right to be fearful and having their concerns written off as a failure to understand the bigger picture. At the same time, many low-skilled jobs don't pay enough to support a family, so it's not surprising that many prefer to stay on benefits and leave them to immigrants.

There is no easy solution, but the strategy of increasing minimum wage and employer NI contributions whilst simultaneously tightening the rules on claiming benefits and building more houses seems sensible to me. I hope that rent caps and a return to some sort of MIRAS comes next. People who work have a right to expect a decent standard of living, and that starts with decent housing that they can afford.

What no one appears to be admitting is that every country’s economic growth depends on inward migration.

Farage’s siren song over immigration is as false as his Brexit song.

Unfortunately, what happened when we invoked Brexit, was that the Europeans who we relied upon to fill so many vacancies, and indeed help our economy, returned to the EU.

Consequently we had thousands upon thousands of vacancies to fill, which we attempted to do by allowing Asian and African folk in to fill the vacancies via visas. But imo this will never answer long term.

At the same time brexit ended the reciprocal asylum arrangement with the EU, so crossings have risen.

The answer to all this is obvious.

Allsorts

I cannot understand targeting people who want to come here and work, it should be stricter, everyone should learn English, if they fail to they are not serious. The times I have wanted to ask for an interpreter on seeing a doctor or health worker, its dangerous, we need to understand each other. Also, if those that want to make their home here, break the law, regardless of children they might have here, which they know give them priviledges, send them back. Why doesn't anyone target the boats, the illegals, no one wants them here, how many we must have hidden, its just ridiculous having so many people who destroy passports etc to get here. They could be criminals.
Starmer does what he does best, as in Covid, he sits on the fence. He might be a good egg, a nice fellow but he is wishy washy. Not a fan of Farage but at least he does what he says he will. Conservatives, very much in the background hopefully getting some sort of act together. Its depressing.
The person I have respect for is Jess Philips, she does what she says she will, a rare virtue these days.

Starmer didn’t sit on the fence during the pandemic. If he disproved of the governments actions he spoke out but most of the time he supported the government because he has always said he will put country before politics. Unlike Badenoch who will argue against anything the government does just for the sake of it. Yes, I’d like to know what Farage has ever actually done apart from being instrumental in taking us out of the EU ( which I thought was supposed to be the great solution regarding immigration?).

Galaxy

They aren't going to get the best because of the value placed on carers both financially and as a society.

Sadly you are right. And having people who are reluctantly forced into the job will not help.

Not a fan of Farage but at least he does what he says he will

Do you have any examples of this please?

They aren't going to get the best because of the value placed on carers both financially and as a society.

My point was simply that good carers are special people and to be valued. It is too simple to say that a vacancy caused by not employing a person who has moved here from abroad can be easily filled by a British native who is unemployed. Vulnerable people deserve the best, whatever their nationality. That should be the priority in the care sector.

No one is claiming to be a victim, it's funny more than anything. So now it isn't far right to voice concerns about immigration and it's impact on society, it's not far right to say men can't be women, what's next, net zero maybe.