Winter fuel payment

PoliticsNerd

They didn't Mollygo. I don't hold the poster (or you) in a level of friendship or esteem that makes such silly comments matter.

But, if you feel the need, do entertain me by continuing on this course.

Exactly. PN
You don’t know who you’re answering, so you can be as supercilious or derogatory as you like, without revealing yourself.
The good news is that I find your rather vague posts or inconsequential posts equally entertaining, so as you say “do entertain me by continuing on this course.”

Which poster do you say is making silly comments?

How can people respond if you post such vague comments?

They didn't Mollygo. I don't hold the poster (or you) in a level of friendship or esteem that makes such silly comments matter.

But, if you feel the need, do entertain me by continuing on this course.

Ah, that's fine.

This is what happens when people go down the 'some people' route, though - particularly when they namecheck others, as you did in the quote below.

The 'it's not all about you' comeback is convenient, but I've seen it so often before that I always ask for clarification if I'm in any doubt. I asked who 'some people' were, as did Mollygo, and then qualified my reaction to the namecheck with 'assuming this accusation is directed at me' in the hope of an answer instead of a 'gotcha', but I got it anyway .

Ah, the psychology of agency and control Doodledog and of those who use their greater agency both by denying it to others and by framing others circumstances as their own fault, perpetuating cycles of injustice and social division.

I rarely consider posts are aimed at me or anyone, unless they’re named personally.

Criticising the contents , or lack of facts in any post, even yours PN is part of daily life on GN, so no need to take offence . . . unless they hit a nerve, maybe.

This discussion isn't about you Doodledog, and I’d appreciate it if we could keep it that way. My post would apply to groups, news sources, individuals, and more. I was making a general clarification that you had twice asked me for. If you dont agree, feel free to share your thoughts, but there really is no need to assume all posts are directed at you, personally.

I live in a town with a high percentage of retired professionals and, based on what I see here and the people I mix with, I would agree with you RubyRoobs.

However. i also volunteer with a charity in the city nearby and , like you, I see the income and savings that pensioners living there have. And it is a very different picture. The cut in the winter fuel allowance hit some very hard. Specifically those just over the pension credit limit.

Thankfully it was a mild winter around here and a number of churches and public places had open doors.

Perhaps if your job had a wider scope you would see a different picture too?

Rosie51

RubyRoobs

LizzieDrip

”Which world are you living in”

I’m living in the real world in which many pensioners are well off, as I’m sure you know yourself windmill.

I totally agree with you. I work in a role where we see what income pensioners have coming in and savings and most are not short of money !

Without disclosing the type of employment you work in your post has limited relevance. For all we know the pensioners you have access to are a select group of wealthy pensioners and not typical at all. Pensioners who only have a state pension could hardly be described as well off, and many have no or very little in savings.

Apologies in advance if any of these figures are slightly out, they are from Google sources. Out of the 13 million or so pensioners, 904,000 people are now paying 40 per cent income tax while a further 124,000 are paying 45 per cent, according to a freedom of information request obtained by former pensions minister Sir Steve Webb. A total of 8.8 million now pay tax. Wealthy pensioners cannot be a select group if one in 13 of us is paying higher rate tax? However, 4.2 million pensioners are below the tax threshold, of whom only 1.4 million claim tax credit, so there are 2.8 million who must rely on small amounts of savings. It’s impossible to generalise, based on such a wide income range and circumstances I think.

RubyRoobs

LizzieDrip

”Which world are you living in”

I’m living in the real world in which many pensioners are well off, as I’m sure you know yourself windmill.

I totally agree with you. I work in a role where we see what income pensioners have coming in and savings and most are not short of money !

Without disclosing the type of employment you work in your post has limited relevance. For all we know the pensioners you have access to are a select group of wealthy pensioners and not typical at all. Pensioners who only have a state pension could hardly be described as well off, and many have no or very little in savings.

LizzieDrip

^”Which world are you living in”^

I’m living in the real world in which many pensioners are well off, as I’m sure you know yourself windmill.

I totally agree with you. I work in a role where we see what income pensioners have coming in and savings and most are not short of money !

PoliticsNerd

Ah, the psychology of agency and control Doodledog and of those who use their greater agency both by denying it to others and by framing others circumstances as their own fault, perpetuating cycles of injustice and social division.

We no longer allow this in personal relationships (where people can be brave enough to disclose it) but the gossip, the person who can tell you their neighbours financial position without assess to records but based on opinion, those are the people who gaslight others worse off than they are.

They create a social dynamic where the poor are seen as responsible for their circumstances, consequently absolving themselves from responsibility and justifying their accumulation of their level of wealth at the expense of others.

What are you talking about?

I am not in any way trying to control society (assuming you are directing that accusation at me), and nor do I have greater agency than anyone else. I don't gossip or gaslight - I am very direct, although I try my best to be balanced and tactful. Also, FWIW, I don't have accumulated wealth, and what savings I do have have not been acquired at the expense of others.

Your post has precisely no 'facts' in it, however much you may assume you have greater understanding of others' circumstances and motivation.

David49

This is not the third world where pensioners are left to fend for themselves when the finish working, we have social services that provide healthcare, housing and food if needed.

It’s not a perfect system there will be those who don’t get everything all the time, but despite lurid predictions we don’t have the elderly dying from neglect. We have some of the best social policies on the globe.

The predictions that thousands would die from hypothermia if the didn’t get WFA was ridiculous, its not about abolishing WFA, it’s about getting it to those that NEED help and not wasting money on those that don’t.

I couldn't agree more David49.

Can I just explain that I sometimes don't answer questions on demand because I don't always have the time to answer in a thoughtful way. I'm sure this is true of us all.

I don't think attempting to bully your neighbour, Gransnet wise, can solve that issue. Surely contributors should be allowed to post as and when suits them not be expected to do so at another's behest?

Ah, the psychology of agency and control Doodledog and of those who use their greater agency both by denying it to others and by framing others circumstances as their own fault, perpetuating cycles of injustice and social division.

We no longer allow this in personal relationships (where people can be brave enough to disclose it) but the gossip, the person who can tell you their neighbours financial position without assess to records but based on opinion, those are the people who gaslight others worse off than they are.

They create a social dynamic where the poor are seen as responsible for their circumstances, consequently absolving themselves from responsibility and justifying their accumulation of their level of wealth at the expense of others.

This is not the third world where pensioners are left to fend for themselves when the finish working, we have social services that provide healthcare, housing and food if needed.

It’s not a perfect system there will be those who don’t get everything all the time, but despite lurid predictions we don’t have the elderly dying from neglect. We have some of the best social policies on the globe.

The predictions that thousands would die from hypothermia if the didn’t get WFA was ridiculous, its not about abolishing WFA, it’s about getting it to those that NEED help and not wasting money on those that don’t.

‘Some people’ won’t be identified- they never are.

Wanting to be in control of your lifestyle after decades of working does not mean that you think you are a better person. It means that you want to be in control of your lifestyle after decades of working. Unless someone says ‘I am a better person so want to have x, y or z’ I fail to see how any third party can possibly extrapolate that those are the feelings behind their statements.

Similarly, deciding that you are the keeper of the ‘facts’ won’t make you right, however often you declare it. Different ‘facts’ can be chosen to tell different stories, and which ones are chosen depends on the opinion of the chooser, who has exactly the same ‘authority’ as everyone else who is expressing her opinion. Calling others’ opinions ‘ridiculous’ doesn’t make it so either.

Doodledog

Who are the 'some' who you think may feel they are better people, and why do you think that?

I’ll be interested to know too.

It’s great to read about your 94 year old friend Charleygirl. She has lived independently and is still able to make the choice that’s best for her now.

A friend of mine, aged 94, chose a care home and moved in less than two months ago. She pays marginally over £6K a month.

Her house is on the market to pay for it, and as she lived in London, the money should not run out.

Who are the 'some' who you think may feel they are better people, and why do you think that?

"allow many more" should read "allow many more to claim"

One problem with the system is the difference of allowable savings between council paid care at home or in a home, and Pension Credit. My first suggestion would be that the level of savings is raised for those claiming PC to the same level as those receiving council care, at home or in a care home. This would mean moving it from £10,000 or under for PC to £23,250 or under. Such a change would allow many more on an income that is already within the eligibility level to claim.

I have always felt the £10,000 was harsh on home owners. Renters, will have a landlord legally responsible for upkeep. Home owners are responsible for their own. I wouldn't be surprised if such a rise allowed more people to stay in their own homes with family care for longer.

This is about facts. Yes, some people are being asked to drain savings. If that is the issue then let's look at that savings levels not blame and "other" those who haven't got the savings. It may make some feel they are better people but it really doesn't solve the issues with any system.

People will always work to the system. To some extent that is one reason why systems are designed the way they are. If people are doing that in a way society doesn't require then you need to change the system which will then change people's behaviour.

Grannynannywanny I got my full state pension last year plus after going to CA they helped and I do get just over £70 per week pension credit . They take in consideration any savings you have . My state pension is my only classed as income my PIP isn't classed as income but it took me 35 years to get disability benefits and I was born disabled. Because I was told no diagnosis no benefit. I finally got my diagnosis aged 63 in 2022 and I was born with a rare hereditary neurological condition. Which has impacted on my whole life . I have been in constant pain and fall. 1988 when the limb jerks started our GP told me I was disabled and to apply for DLA. Which was turned down even at tribunal.

My PIP forms my daughter fill as I have difficulty writing ,my assessment was over the phone and it took hour and 46 minutes. I was given zero for everything. Only because of the Brain Charity I could go to tribunal as they got me a solicitor pro bono took over a year to get there but the tribunal panel where very kind and had a support worker from the Brain Charity with me. And was awarded enhanced PIP for living and enhanced PIP for mobility indefinitely. The tribunal is really a court as it's a judge heading it and your decision comes on crown court paper. Plus it was back dated to when I asked for the forms. The judge apologised over the way I had been treated. And said sorry he couldn't back date it further.

Always check with CA ,Age UK or if you have a condition or disability get in touch with the charity associated with what you have . And they will help you get everything you are entitled to.

If you have low savings check with the CA . Plus you can check 3 months before receiving your state pension if you are entitled pension credit. The lady at the CA did most of the talking for me and DWP logged my application and she wrote down what I had to say when I phone DWP on my birthday and got my decision letter within a week . To be honest didn't think I would get anything but delighted with what I get.

Even when you proof read they somehow still pop up Whitewave

Also that should read 500000. Note to self - proof read.