Reform activists depict female cabinet ministers as cows in abattoir.

David49

Might improve behavior of pupils.

Might protect teacher and help other children learn more.

I’m not sure if UK schools have the worst reputation for behavior in the world but I do know many have a reputation far better some third word nations too.

But as you are all satisfied that it has sunk so low that’s fine.

Wyllow3

I just think realistically - prosecute when its possible to try and stem this tide of diminishing or normalising violent mockery - not give up - in this case it would be good to make an example of it and draw that line, since laws do apply: yes a tide seems to be sweeping over from the USA we don't want here.
Like the US pre-election oft repeated claim that undocumented people "Eat cats and dogs" was not only allowed but repeated.

It depends how much we want this to be a place of constant litigation.There are more than enough prosecutions as it is.
Should we make a crime of all we disapprove of? I wouldn’t want that.I may not like people I pass in the High St effing and blinding but I really don’t want on the spot fines for it either.
Here we are on this planet spinning around in space and we do need some rules so it isn’t complete anarchy but I don’t want to live in a Big Brother kind of society.
There seems to be quite a lot of the ‘it shouldn’t be allowed’ attitudes when most of the time, yes it should be allowed and it’s ok if some are offended/ disapprove.
The more oxygen of publicly is pumped in to the Reform antics the worse it will be and yes, a lot of people will think it’s amusing, not here on this forum but in the wider world.

Might improve behavior of pupils.

Galaxy

I am in classrooms nearly every day, in areas with considerable problems, no CCTV in any of them.

I've known CCTV in corridors, but that's it.

I am in classrooms nearly every day, in areas with considerable problems, no CCTV in any of them.

David49

It’s realistic, police carry body cameras, schoolrooms have CCTV it’s easy to implement, but it won’t, so it’s just going to get worse.

I've never known a classroom with CCTV. Teachers get abused every day and, unfortunately, some sections of the media support the pupils and parents. It's more likely that teachers lose it after being provoked and pupils video any outbursts on their phones. The same is true of GPs, council officers and all sorts of public servants.

Silverbrooks

Of course, unless someone makes a formal complaint in which case Perloff could be prosecuted and fined.

Just because a law isn't enforced it doesn't mean the offence didn't take place.

Maybe make people aware who was behind it and his association with Reform. I expect there are people who agree with the sentiment and find it funny (unfortunately).

Nevertheless, when people put their cross against a Reform candidate on a ballot paper, they need to know what kind of person is financing them, maybe ask themselves whether this is really the kind of person who is likely to stand up for the "little guys".

It’s realistic, police carry body cameras, schoolrooms have CCTV it’s easy to implement, but it won’t, so it’s just going to get worse.

Silverbrooks

I'm not talking about libel or slander but the kind of behaviour that is ... indecent or grossly offensive which ... cause(s) distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

Malicious Communications Act 1988

Social media is full of strangers hurling abuse at one another. X has become an absolute cesspit since Musk took it over. Impossible to voice an opinion on anything without abusive name calling.

I'm sure you know the issue here as well as I do. It's integral to the "free speech" debate and whether people have a right to be offended.

The concern is that if something like this "abbatoir" stunt were to be prosecuted, there would be some very vocal people who would claim the protesters are just "woke" and can't take a joke. There's a groundswell of people who endorse this kind of thinking.

I'm not sure what the answer is. IMO it must never become normalised, but I'm not sure that those of use who find it offensive have found the right ammunition yet.

I just think realistically - prosecute when its possible to try and stem this tide of diminishing or normalising violent mockery - not give up - in this case it would be good to make an example of it and draw that line, since laws do apply: yes a tide seems to be sweeping over from the USA we don't want here.
Like the US pre-election oft repeated claim that undocumented people "Eat cats and dogs" was not only allowed but repeated.

I'm not talking about libel or slander but the kind of behaviour that is ... indecent or grossly offensive which ... cause(s) distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

Malicious Communications Act 1988

Social media is full of strangers hurling abuse at one another. X has become an absolute cesspit since Musk took it over. Impossible to voice an opinion on anything without abusive name calling.

You do see cases where celebrities sue another party for libel or slander but they are civil cases and cost millions to take to court

My last was to Oreo.

I agree that the police should enforce the Public Order Act more - a few on-the-spot fines for the kinds of public disorder that have become commonplace. I am tired of not being able to walk down the High Street without hearing offensive language.

Similarly, The Malicious Communications Act 1988 is little used other than in recent high profile cases to do with last year's riots.

Of course, unless someone makes a formal complaint in which case Perloff could be prosecuted and fined.

Just because a law isn't enforced it doesn't mean the offence didn't take place.

Silverbrooks

^It isn’t a criminal offence to cause ‘distress’ or offence.^

Yes it is when it's done in public. This is why we have a Public Order Act.

Section 5 Public Order Act 1986

1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a) uses threatening or abusive words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening or abusive,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

This was done in a public place - outside major Reform donor Andrew Perloff's Elstree home on the A411.

That may be correct but it’s widely ignored, it would be a great step forward those abusing police or politicians were prosecuted on every occasion. Like many “crimes” it’s deemed not in the public interest

Swearing at a police officer attracted a £100 fixed penalty, libel on social media £200, that would improve standards.

Oreo

In that case we can expect his arrest and being charged then?
Doubtful.

Yes, doubtful, but well worth publicising this oaf's output as unless its condemned by Reform Leaders he become another example of what lies behind the respectable facade. Farage may laugh it off but really he cant want it as part of the Reform image, they do suspend people.

A consequence of these crass stunts and letting them pass by without criticism and leaders not taking responsibility for them just increases the number of people who say "they're all the same why bother to vote"

And this stunt was a clear choice to attack women politicians specifically.
Putting forward a POV women have to tolerate high levels of abuse excusing this stunt as trivial needs calling out here or anywhere else.

😖Ed Miliband! I wish Starmer would demote him to the dept of counting paperclips before he can ruin us all.

In that case we can expect his arrest and being charged then?
Doubtful.

It isn’t a criminal offence to cause ‘distress’ or offence.

Yes it is when it's done in public. This is why we have a Public Order Act.

Section 5 Public Order Act 1986

1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a) uses threatening or abusive words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or

(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening or abusive,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby.

(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

This was done in a public place - outside major Reform donor Andrew Perloff's Elstree home on the A411.

“Andrew Perloff is a climate change denier who blames rising inflation on climate policies. So why isn’t David Miliband depicted in the tableau?”

There are an awful lot of people would agree with that opinion, Milliband is probably the least like Labour politician, I accept that there needs to be action to reduce CO2 but we are not, emissions are increasing globally. All the UK is doing is greenwashing, replacing emissions with imports from China and others that are still burning coal.

It has cost us hundreds of billions and destroyed our productive capacity, is it the cause of inflation?, it hasn’t helped for sure. At least we now have a PM that recognizes that we have to earn our life style.

I don’t agree that it should be ignored by Starmer Oreo. Not only should he defend his female ministers from crass sexism, but he should make it clear that any future similar transgressions which clearly cross the line will be dealt with formally by the courts.

We may need or want more respect, less public rudeness and bad behaviour but achieving it is another matter.
Yes Elegran think your last comment is correct.

Iam64

I don’t believe we should ignore crass, inflammatory stunts like the one under discussion. They need calling out.
We need more respect, less public rudeness and bad behaviour
Like growstuff im from a family where public service was ever present
Less so now two of our adult children left public service to run their own businesses

Well, it has been called out hasn’t it? It’s not a matter of ignoring it as we have had our say on it in print on SM.I do think that Starmer should ignore it tho as all it would do is draw even more attention to it from the public and make it seem even more that Labour is afraid of the success of Reform.

Iam64 hear hear. There are certain things you can ignore but blatant sexism from a so called political party isn't one of them. By ignoring, you give them the message that it's ok to be offensive and they and their followers will ramp it up.