Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

Wyllow3

woodenspoon

I think what value do these people bring to the UK? Nothing as far as I can see. Just problems.

"These people" are all individual human beings. Start with that humanity, the basics, what a person is like.

They may contribute much or little to our society. They may be warm.. loving.. angry and hating or in between in different ways.
Often it isn't the culture that is "different", its the character.

Any toxic behaviour from any group is anathema. - be very careful - it could be from the so called "us" in the "us and them".
And you dont need to go far into social media to find real, toxic, life threatening behaviour from "us".

Be open? take people as they come, not the label.

Hmmm very saintly. But you can’t tell what a person is like if you can’t see their face. Or can you? As you say warm, loving, angry etc but how could you possibly tell. You must enlighten us Wyllow.

woodenspoon I have been very grateful to "these people" when I was going through my cancer treatment and recently when I had a bad fall. What use are they? Invaluable!

Well we can all chip in but I feel I 've addressed that already upthread as have others.

So do we just take women covered up like draped faceless statues whether or not they want to be?

woodenspoon

I think what value do these people bring to the UK? Nothing as far as I can see. Just problems.

"These people" are all individual human beings. Start with that humanity, the basics, what a person is like.

They may contribute much or little to our society. They may be warm.. loving.. angry and hating or in between in different ways.
Often it isn't the culture that is "different", its the character.

Any toxic behaviour from any group is anathema. - be very careful - it could be from the so called "us" in the "us and them".
And you dont need to go far into social media to find real, toxic, life threatening behaviour from "us".

Be open? take people as they come, not the label.

From a young age we learn a lot from facial expressions and I think this is why some of us feel uncomfortable with people wearing burqas. We respond to facial expressions and can learn whether this person is safe or not.
I was passing a young woman in the street once and her face was contorted with hatred. She was glaring at me and scowling. I was instantly alert averted my eyes and walked on quickly.
We are a tolerant country and what the burqa stands for is the subjugation of women so not in our country's ethics so on reflection we should ban it.

Sure lafergar. ‘These’ is used for a collective noun so ‘these people’. If it were one it would be that person. Clear enough for you?

Any update on " these people" please?

Dry robes and beanie hats still show a face, eyes, intent.

There are occasions when it's sensible to cover/obscure the face. Riding a motorbike; playing cricket or ice hockey, performing surgery. Major outbreaks of infectious disease.

Otherwise, I reckon burkas, hoodies, baseball caps and Superman masks have all had their day .

So a ban on all covering garments? Yes I would like to ban those silly dryrobe things and beanie hats.

I concur.

“We don’t know who’s underneath.”
Male/female? We have no idea.
To me that’s the crux of the matter, so yes I would be in favour of a ban on the wearing of these all covering garments.

Wyllow3

Aveline

If UAE bans them why can't we?

Hang on a moment - you have produced the most extreme burka as an example for effect?

There is the rectangular opening for eye area instead which I've seen not that full on one. It matters a great deal the difference as the rectangular opening isnt so different from mentions of Covid masks and people who've to wear a mask now for protection.

The UAE does not ban the burqa or the battoulah

Primrose53

Yes it should be banned. In many cases they are very dangerous. Go to Leicester and see the women driving around in great big 4 x 4s with full face coverings and just a slit to see through. You can’t tell me that’s safe.

Is it the garment, the car or the people in Leicester that cause you such concern please?

Who are " these people"

Please answer, Thanks

I think what value do these people bring to the UK? Nothing as far as I can see. Just problems.

I wouldn’t ban unless they refused to reveal their face for identification. All the same I find it a bit daunting to be faced with this, not knowing what’s underneath.
I never do parents interviews with parents whose faces I can’t see, but I’ve never had problems with saying that.

Aveline

If UAE bans them why can't we?

Hang on a moment - you have produced the most extreme burka as an example for effect?

There is the rectangular opening for eye area instead which I've seen not that full on one. It matters a great deal the difference as the rectangular opening isnt so different from mentions of Covid masks and people who've to wear a mask now for protection.

Yes because I feel it is not in line with our ethos. If a motorcyclist wearing a full faced helmet is unable to enter a shop without removing it then it should apply to all people wearing full facial coverings.
But then my situation is biased - as a deaf person - COVID was my worse nightmare as I couldn't read peoples' faces when they were wearing face masks. The same applies to the burqa, helmet etc etc etc.

Crossstitchfan

Ladyleftfieldlover

Absolutely not. Honestly, how far would you go? Nuns cover their hair for religious reasons. Would you ban that too? I am so surprised by this question that I can’t formulate a neat answer! We live in a society with free speech, freedom to worship etc., etc.

Yes, but with nuns, you can still see their faces. A burka makes that impossible.
Whatever happened to, ‘when in Rome….’?

Yes, but with nuns, you can still see their faces. A burka makes that impossible.

I believe that's the 'thorny' bit.

If you think about it in the abstract, covering one's face unless shielding from a sand-storm, hail-stones - or a condition like xeroderma pigmentosum, is not the norm for humans, women or men.

So we are left with the question of culture / religion. How far do we allow the State to interfere with this?

Then there is, also, the matter of personal freedom of choice - are some women being forced to wear the burka against their will? And, if they are then this is a problem because it's coercion. In the UK, coercion / controlling behaviour is now a crime.

This is where multi-culturalism shows its cracks. In theory no woman should be compelled either by her husband or family to wear the burka. But, who is going to make that challenge?

I have to admit that I struggle a little with this.

If we go to another country then I believe that most of us would follow the cultural norms / rules for that country - should we not have that view here?

Are we removing a choice from those who want to wear such an item?

If we are to ban the Burka...will we also ban the balaclavas and face covering a lot of the young thugs are wearing, potentially far more problematic in my view!

Take faith out of the equation and just consider how women dress.

We are all conforming and controlled in one way or another. We think we are making a free choice but most of the time we aren’t.

Often we are trying to look good to please someone else or to conform to a dress code. Just look at how many threads we see here from women needing to dress for an occasion but feeling uncomfortable about what they think they are obliged to wear.

Ultimately, we are driven by what the shops stock, which is driven by the fashion industry, which is dominated by men. It is men telling us all what we can and can't wear.

Whether it's driven by faith or commercialism we are all being controlled.

I think there’s less integration by insistence on wearing it. What they do in their own homes is up to them. In public it is dehumanising and intimidating and, as others have said, easy to disguise those who wish us harm. My belief is if people come to this country they shouldn’t be setting up enclaves that mirror where they came from. They should integrate. Many don’t and never will.

Would a ban from various public spaces merely serve to stop some Muslim women from entering these places?

Defeats the object I think.

You cannot even enter most shops and supermarkets if you are wearing a full face crash helmet.

A few years ago there was a team of people wearing full black gowns and burkhas going around large supermarkets and stealing thousands of pounds worth of goods. We need to be able to see who we are dealing with!