Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

No:

for reasons outlined above by others:

I'd like to see its use fade, it is fading as women who currently use it see other Muslim women just in a headscarf, and realise its OK, let this process continue.

If women we see oppressed by choosing to wear a burka are ordered not to, we are in our turn oppressing them!

We live in a liberal country, lets act like it.

but use a carrot not a stick.

Just re-read your post terribull - good argument.

Banning the burqa could free many women who don't want to wear it but are compelled to do so.
The problem would be for those who want to wear a burqa or who have husbands who insist that they stay at home if not wearing one.

So I am coming at this from a feminist perspective mainly but the points about 'alien to European culture' are interesting. I think for me the concern about security is probably the least of my worries about it. That is an important point that Terribull made about our instinctive reaction, I absolutely have that reaction, I would be lying if I said I didn't, it is about the message it sends about women and to women.
I have just had a look and 8 European countries have some form of ban in reference to public spaces.

Yes it should be banned. We are a Western country, not middle Eastern, and it needs to stay that way. I am out and proud Reform supporter.

terribull I was very persuaded by the Danish argument, but was also mindful of the Muslim chaps negative reaction, so that is when I feel coercion is not the best choice.

That post was to galaxy !!

Thanks.

Looking at Wikipedia - it shows the countries where it is fully or partially banned.

Some surprising countries, like Canada who always seem very laid back about these things.

But I would hope it is done for either purely practice reasons or trying to achieve integration rather than racism.

You cannot make an analogy between covering the head and covering the face, umpteen people wear head coverings. How could those be deemed a barrier to transparency?

Transparency is a factor in all of this. Ideally faces should not be covered, that includes balaclavas, we know they have been used for insidious reasons. One of the male killers of WPC Sharon Beshenivsky slipped out of the country disguised in a burka, when I read that I definitely thought they should be banned. It's a difficult one really, we do live in a free society, but looking towards mainland Europe, many countries have banned it on the ground that incomers should assimilate and respect the host culture. At times I think France has been heavy handed in enforcing that in taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut possibly. The burka is a very alien garment here in the west, its connotations are numerous, not least the subjugation of women, when we see pictures of the women of Afghanistan in the most extreme of those all encompassing garments complete with that ludicrous facial contraption which impedes their peripheral vision. Lets be honest as women it gives most of us rage on their behalf as to the misogyny dished out by a hard line theocracy. Patriarchal religions are forever dictating some sort of supplication as far as women are concerned. Watching Simon Reeve's programme on Scandinavia, Denmark in particular, a culture that many in the west look to as an ideal in all things egalitarian, it is their desire to see their immigrants fully immersed in Danish culture, their rationale is simply parallel societies that exist within the country as a sub culture that cling to customs not compatible with all that Denmark has to offer, will not afford their female citizens the same advantages as their Danish counterparts. The two sides of the coin are, as we sometimes hear, there are some women that don the burka of their own volition and there will be those that are forced to wear it. Outwardly it's a barrier, we need to see faces to engage, the subliminal message in forcing women into this type of apparel, is to make them some sort of non person which is beyond insulting imo.

Would we accept being forced to wear such a garment? if we answer no, then why is it acceptable for women from other ethnic groups to have it foisted upon them, are they not our equals ?

Sorry whitewave, the Tesco man arrived so I was in a hurry but to be fair I don't do it even when not in a hurry! I was just responding to the point about how well it is has or hasnt worked in other countries, a very difficult thing to assess I suppose.

galaxy I wish you would say to whom you are replying in your posts😊 I’m never sure and don’t know if it requires a further comment

I just think we need to be asking a different question from the ones about choice.

The salient question is how vital is it to our society that we are able to identify individuals and thereby hold them accountable for their actions?

I think that’s vital, and that any form of face covering. (which is our best initial form of identification) should not be allowed.

I am very uneasy about banning the burka, but I am also uneasy about anything that removes women from society, and a woman wearing a burka in public is being erased from society.

I have read the quote Silverbrook posted, but beg to disagree. I could accept this woman's argument if men too wore burkas, or could if they wanted to and roughly as many men chose to wear burkas as women. But the burka by its being a garment that only women wear, that is aimed at hiding women, their faces, their ordinary everyday clothed bodies, when men do not do likewise, is inherently discriminately.

The other side that is never put is what about our European cultural norms. In Europe there has always been a cultural norm for the visible face. The person who hides their face is seen as suspicious. Villains always swirl their cloaks over their faces, In the period of Mystery Novels, dangerous devious monks, hid their faces in their cowls, the knight who killed the dragon and won the lady, took off his helmet to reveal his faceto his inamorata. The bank robber or burglar wears a mask to cover their face.

Isn't it reasonable to ask that there should be a respect for our culture, and our unease about people who hide their faces.

Having witten the above, I have reluctantly convinced myself that while I would not ban the burka, I would avtively discourage it. Motor cyclists have to take their helmets off to go into banks, petrol stations, they take them off for interviews, and would not wear them at a meeting. I see no difference between them and a woman wearing a burka or any other face covering. On the other hand, covering your mouth with a scarf in freezing weather, wearing a mask when avoiding infection, are all acceptable reasons to wear a mask, although again, when you get to the warm shop, office, workplace, you take it off and everyone can see you.

Yes I would be interested in how it has worked in France for example, I think it also Denmark and Belgium?

My main aim in my decision would be to ensure that we reduce division in our society to an absolute minimum, and I think integration and education is the best tool to ensure this.

Where I fall down, is the realisation, that education has done little to achieve this aim to date, judging by what you read on SM, including GN.

Yes

Yes it should. I have posted elsewhere and will transfer my comments.

I agree with freedom of choice, I think if we take away a woman's freedom to wear it we potentially damage their freedom not to. It might result in those women not being seen in and exposed to our culture as much... I don't know how well it has worked in other countries.

Currently elsewhere online am reading posts after post from women in Saudi Arabia about the coercion to remain covered. There is the issue that it is used as a form of oppression elsewhere. So whilst there may be women who make that choice ( and again choice does need to be seen in the context of who holds power) sometimes a few women making that choice makes it very difficult for others to 'escape'. It is a very complex issue.

Yes

Reluctantly, I'd say it shouldn't be banned. I am very sorry for the women who feel compelled to wear it but if they can only get out if they are wearing the burka then banning it might keep them in their homes.

I would never presume to tell a woman what she can and can’t wear. Many do wear the burqa from choice.

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/what-is-a-burqa

GLAMOUR’s columnist Hani Sidow talks exclusively to Qatar born 28-year-old Khansa Abdul Jaleel, a Computer Engineer, digital marketing consultant and lifestyle blogger about life under the veil … an ambitious and educated woman who has made the personal decision to wear a burqa.

What would you say to someone who believes you might be oppressed or don’t have a choice when it comes to wearing a burqa?

I am not oppressed, I am accomplished. Before putting women who wear a burqa down, I'd ask you to try to understand why we do it. None of my accomplishments would have happened if I were oppressed because I'd be unhappy and I'm not. As a society, there needs to be a better education of our culture so we can understand a little more about each other. It is never nice to label someone based on their own personal choices.

I’m still thinking about this.

The trouble is that with the issue of immigration and all the problems surrounding it, - racism and racist political parties like reform, it will inevitably be seen as a win for xenophobia and racism, if symbols of the Muslim faith like face covering is banned.

But, I very strongly believe that in order for our society to all shake down together with little division, our culture and its values need to be understood by every member of our society, including its language.

I suspect that time will deal with that however, particularly as the second and third generation immigrants are immersed in British culture.

With regard to the veil. In an ideal world, freedom of choice would be my choice. If the women feel coerced into wearing covering, then I think that this must be their fight and no one else’s!

I think it would be a forced and divisive decision to ban the choice of garment. Much, much better to come from within the religion.

Yes, I also think that there are times when something as simple and universal and unique as the human face needs to be fully recognisable.

So you can see my opinion is very much one of “don’t yet know”

I’m so thick I can’t even see the alliteration 😳

Galaxy