Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

Allira

Iam64

I posted on the Good Morning thread asking where FGT was as I’d missed her posts. I’m sorry she’s banned and hope it’s a suspension not a ban.
Like so many others, I’ve often not shared some of FGT’s politics but so much more unites than divides us,
She’s always interesting, extremely kind hearted and such fun
Come back FGT

I don't agree with much of FGT's politics either but she has never posted anything against the guidelines, as far as I have seen, and nothing that is not widely published in the media.

Let's hope she will be back soon.

FGT2 is as well as can be expected, hoping (everything crossed) to be allowed back sometime next month.

Iam64

I posted on the Good Morning thread asking where FGT was as I’d missed her posts. I’m sorry she’s banned and hope it’s a suspension not a ban.
Like so many others, I’ve often not shared some of FGT’s politics but so much more unites than divides us,
She’s always interesting, extremely kind hearted and such fun
Come back FGT

I don't agree with much of FGT's politics either but she has never posted anything against the guidelines, as far as I have seen, and nothing that is not widely published in the media.

Let's hope she will be back soon.

Yes, we should ban the burka in the UK, how can anyone integrate otherwise.

Iam64

I’ve somehow missed this thread, so just read through it. I live in a former mill town with the usual community of people of Pakistani heritage, who follow the Muslim faith. Forty years ago the majority of men from the community wore western dress. The women dressed modestly but burka’s, even hjabs were rare.
These days the men wear traditional dress on high days and holidays. Burkas are much more in number. Many teenage girls are seen off to college wearing skinny jeans, modest but fashionable tops and beautiful hijabs (and expertly applied make up ).
I don’t believe banning the burka is necessary. I would expect women to show their faces at airports, banks, if teaching or working with children or adults.

That’s sad, that restriction in women’s clothing is now worse in a Northern town than it was 40 years ago, going backwards it seems.

She won’t be able to come back.🙁

I posted on the Good Morning thread asking where FGT was as I’d missed her posts. I’m sorry she’s banned and hope it’s a suspension not a ban.
Like so many others, I’ve often not shared some of FGT’s politics but so much more unites than divides us,
She’s always interesting, extremely kind hearted and such fun
Come back FGT

I’ve somehow missed this thread, so just read through it. I live in a former mill town with the usual community of people of Pakistani heritage, who follow the Muslim faith. Forty years ago the majority of men from the community wore western dress. The women dressed modestly but burka’s, even hjabs were rare.
These days the men wear traditional dress on high days and holidays. Burkas are much more in number. Many teenage girls are seen off to college wearing skinny jeans, modest but fashionable tops and beautiful hijabs (and expertly applied make up ).
I don’t believe banning the burka is necessary. I would expect women to show their faces at airports, banks, if teaching or working with children or adults.

Lathyrus3

I just think we need to be asking a different question from the ones about choice.

The salient question is how vital is it to our society that we are able to identify individuals and thereby hold them accountable for their actions?

I think that’s vital, and that any form of face covering. (which is our best initial form of identification) should not be allowed.

Exactly this

Ladyleftfieldlover

Absolutely not. Honestly, how far would you go? Nuns cover their hair for religious reasons. Would you ban that too? I am so surprised by this question that I can’t formulate a neat answer! We live in a society with free speech, freedom to worship etc., etc.

The women who have to wear the burka do not have the freedom to refuse the wearing of this garment.

Travellers round here seem to actually travel! 🙂
They then pitch up in town car parks which they take over for a few weeks, which become no-go areas for anyone wanting to park and shop. The spaces for blue badge holders are particularly desirable.

Allira in our area it is the permanent travellers camps/sites which are known no go areas.

Nothing to do with burkas, but they do cover their faces with scarves and pulled down baseball hats.

Any form of face-covering should be banned in places accessible to the public in the interests of security. That should include items of clothing and masks of all kinds unless mandated for preventing disease.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

Where do you live, so that we can investigate and advise.

Obviously I don't mean precisely!! 😀
But, a general area would be helpful as it's rather like asking how long is a piece of string.

GrannyGravy13

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

I know one such place, 10 minutes from me.

Yes, there are such places; sometimes they manage to turn themselves around.

A place in a city not far from me was known for its gang violence 40 years ago, including guns, substance abuse, even reports of thefts from cars stuck at traffic lights.

It has improved there over the years with strong policing and good community leaders, now a vibrant and cosmopolitan area.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

Please tell you where they are?

Better to watch the news.
Keep up to date with your local area WhatsApp group.
Even our city centre, or a local park where I often walk during the day which have been fairly safe since we moved here a long time ago, now generate police reports advising people to avoid x-area because of violence or large groups of youths.
I was used to being told to avoid certain areas when I lived in Liverpool, but didn’t expect it here.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

I know one such place, 10 minutes from me.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

I have to say that I have been told, purely anecdotally, that where I live there are local families who dominate in some areas, sometimes acting outside the law, who the police will not challenge. It's not an immigrant based phenomenon, these are white British.

OTOH, they don't impinge on most people's everyday life and there are certainly no 'no go' areas.

It’s a social experiment by Denmark and will take time to see if it works well.

Allira
I'm not sure about relocating people out of areas where they feel safe and perhaps comfortable, with others around them.

That’s exactly the point the relocated Birkenhead parents made.
On the other hand, in Liverpool, the mothers who brought their children to translate, or sat mute next to their husbands at parent teacher meetings, lived in areas where they only ever spoke to each other, so knew little English.

I'm not sure about relocating people out of areas where they feel safe and perhaps comfortable, with others around them.

Integration, yes, but perhaps by encouragement such as free lessons in Danish, Danish culture and meeting up with Danish people in groups and societies.
Their children will go to school and integrate in that way as long as the schools are not just located in the immigrant areas.

Mollygo. I too would have liked to have seen where the man and family/wife were moved to. The adult children probably no longer lived at home. He mentioned they were in professional occupations and most likely were living elsewhere...maybe married.

So the man and wife possibly no longer needed a large appartment. It must have been a rented flat and as they were involuntarily moved, the flat was part of Denmarks social housing. I dont know anything about Denmarks social housing am only supposing. So possibly the flat is now home to a larger family which would seem a better use of housing stock.
Simon's programme certainly was an education. Well presented and I would like to see a more in depth view of Europe's solutions to immigration and integration. Paris has problems with their ghettoised suburbs. And no doubt other capitals as well. Denmark seems more thoughtful and less knee jeek reactions. Sweden seems to have big drug problems. Denmark is probably helped by its small size.

Dickens
The 'ghettoised' immigrant areas in the UK possibly thrive because poorer immigrants, or those from poorer countries, can't afford to live in more affluent zones.

That was why they moved them. They spread out particularly the ‘non-western people, among the ‘more affluent’ zones and refurbished the ‘ghettoised’ zones presumably so that ‘more affluent’ people who were not ‘non-western’ would move there.

Hard on those who were moved.
Simon interviewed one man who moved to Denmark in 1975 who was upset about it, but Denmark saw it as an incentive to fit in with the Danish ethos and, if I remember rightly, to improve the family chances.
Certainly the man’s children had done well, though I can’t recall the jobs he mentioned.

It is hard when you’re moved like that.

It didn’t just happen in Denmark in the past, and not on the basis of ‘non-western’.

Years ago I taught in Birkenhead after we moved out of Liverpool. The council “rehoused” people out of the poorer areas into ‘nicer’ areas.
It was one of the complaints I heard from some rehoused parents that they didn’t like their new neighbours/neighbourhood.

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

I watched the programme. It was on BBC2 last night.

I think Denmark has the right idea. Sort out the immigrants they already have and don’t allow any more in. I see nothing wrong at all in that.

Do as much as possible to get people to integrate by balancing up the communities. We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.
Ban the Burka.
Make people learn the Danish language and if they don’t, stop any benefits.
Offer them incentives to return to their homeland.

They all seem sensible ideas to me.

Mollygo

Watching Simon Reeve in Denmark.
They have banned full face coverings.
They have quite forceful ways of getting non-westerns to integrate including not allowing areas which only contain one group of people to exist. Even to the extent of moving people out of that area.
They offer up to £26,000 to would-be immigrants to return to their home country.
I wonder how many if those actually go back.

They have quite forceful ways of getting non-westerns to integrate including not allowing areas which only contain one group of people to exist. Even to the extent of moving people out of that area.

The 'ghettoised' immigrant areas in the UK possibly thrive because poorer immigrants, or those from poorer countries, can't afford to live in more affluent zones.

Denmark, generally, is a more economically equal society.

They offer up to £26,000 to would-be immigrants to return to their home country.
I wonder how many if those actually go back.

It would be interesting to know. I think for many people, their homeland is dear to them so I'm guessing some would take up the offer.

I saw a programme some time ago where refugees from war-torn countries who fled to the nearest safe country were interviewed, most said they wanted to return to their homeland as soon as it was safe to do so. Obviously their living conditions in their host country were pretty basic, nevertheless when asked, they didn't seem keen to move further away. This sentiment is probably stronger in the older generation.