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Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

(312 Posts)
growstuff Fri 06-Jun-25 09:08:19

What do posters think?

Nannee49 Sat 07-Jun-25 06:17:24

The whole massive topic of cultural differences needs airing. As a society with real, hard won freedoms, we do need to examine any cultural practices which cause hurt, harm, distress, worse.
It's all very well to say "most burka wearers I know just pop it on for the school run" without examining what would happen if they didn't pop it on.
We all have to get along with mutual respect but it can't flow all one way. If the burka has no religious significance which needs to be respected then it is just another cultural practice hypocritically hiding behind the sanctity of a creed.
If it was banned would it be an act of freedom for women chafing under the oppression of it?

Dickens Sat 07-Jun-25 00:01:24

Wyllow3

"It ended with him suggesting that eventually western women would be forced to come to heel"

We have men in the West like him think Andrew Tate, think of some of the traditional Christian Sects in the USA? Just saying its not unique.

... yes, I'm aware of Andrew Tate (and the accusations against him and his brother), the 'Red Pill', incel culture, etc, etc, also the traditional 'Christian' attitude towards women - and their place in society. And although I've not read all postings on these matters, I'm pretty sure most on GN roundly condemn this culture that seeks to put women 'back in their lane'.

But I'm addressing the topic of the original post and am asking why we should make an exception for a culture or religion that seeks to do something similar?

Tate justifies himself by saying that he's a realist, the so-called traditional Right Wing Christian fundamentalist, similarly believe that women's role is subservient.

... and we argue against both. So again, why make an exception for a culture that demands (on those occasions where it does) that women cover themselves from head to toe?

FWIW I'm not in favour of an outright ban on the burka.

Mollygo Fri 06-Jun-25 23:43:53

GrannyGravy13

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

I didn’t see the post, but why get FGT2 banned?
Presumably the reporter feels a great sense of justification, but it seems unkind.

Rosie51 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:47:51

I haven't seen any 'demands' to know who reported FGT's deleted post, but surely anyone who reports a post should be mature enough to own it? I didn't see the post so will make no comment on its content, but I am aware that sometimes those who portray themselves as one of the 'kind ones' can be quite cruel and vindictive to those that have a different opinion. I'm saddened that she's lost her support from GN posters as a result.

Back on the subject of the thread I don't believe our government would ban the burqa entirely and neither should they, but I do think it should be forbidden in all areas where for safety, justice and meaningful interaction (medical services, social services, education etc) it would be a barrier, so I'd include the niqab in that as well.

Lathyrus3 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:43:28

I’ve never worn a burqa but lived next door to someone who did. It was easy to it on. It just went straight over the top, in one piece, of whatever she was wearing indoors, before she went out.

She said it was less trouble than anything else.

It was expected of her. It didn’t seem to oppress her but her expectations of her life were different to mine. What I would have chafed against made her feel secure🤔

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:37:02

Wyllow3

woodenspoon

The person who reported FGT should be utterly ashamed of themselves. At a time when most other posters are supporting her, through her issues, some cruel person does this. It’s not difficult to work out who this could be either. Shame on you.

Is an inquisition really the right thing to start? Been down this road before where someone "demands" to know and has posters jumping to say it wasn't me?

I was in the process of replying to her and quote the deleted post so it wasn't me but like many others you might"suspect" I do know about whats going on for her and sad that GN didn't take this on board.

I'd would just say however having seen the post sheer coincidence I very, very much doubt it was for that as it repeats POV already expressed.

Can we stay with sympathy for the situation as its complex and wish her well or write to GN instead of an inquisition?

I missed what FGT posted so can't judge and I don't think there is an inquisition at all or a list of suspects.

It's rather sad that posters who are having a bad time in their private lives have been banned. FGT is not the only one, another poster was banned for actually posting her problems on the Estrangement Threads, unbelievably! Just when she needed support.

Wyllow3 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:35:14

Allsorts

Hideous things. Note the men go around nice and cool often in western dress. how do you know enjoy in there.

Sometimes in very hot climates both men and women wear loose robes and cover their heads. We wear tents and a sun hat in summer! Surely it depends on the fabric and what you wear underneath?

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:32:09

lafergar

CariadAgain

More "How do they actually manage to 'live their lives' whilst wearing a "shroud"? "

How do they eat? How do they sneeze? How do they lip-read someone else wearing one?

There may be a few that wear them by genuine choice - but I'd be willing to bet most of the wearers of them are doing so "by quiet force". As in I've come to the conclusion many people/maybe most people just go through life doing what is easiest not to be a "tall poppy that gets noticed - and some might cut them down". So if their relatives/husband/friends are wearing this - then I wouldnt be at all surprised if a lot of the wearers are only wearing them because of cultural pressure - rather than by informed thought-out personal choice.

Most people like to conform to what they see as "societal norms". The last 5 years were an object lesson for all of us on that front...

I suppose you could ask somebody who wears one?

The people I know tend to throw it on for the school run and put it on a peg as soon as they come home.

Do you yourself wear a burqa, lafergar?
You do seem to know a lot about wearing burqa so I did wonder.

If you do, what is your perspective on this? If, as you say, it is thrown on casually, is it because of strict religious beliefs or just because it's a habit? (No pun intended.)

Wyllow3 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:30:47

woodenspoon

The person who reported FGT should be utterly ashamed of themselves. At a time when most other posters are supporting her, through her issues, some cruel person does this. It’s not difficult to work out who this could be either. Shame on you.

Is an inquisition really the right thing to start? Been down this road before where someone "demands" to know and has posters jumping to say it wasn't me?

I was in the process of replying to her and quote the deleted post so it wasn't me but like many others you might"suspect" I do know about whats going on for her and sad that GN didn't take this on board.

I'd would just say however having seen the post sheer coincidence I very, very much doubt it was for that as it repeats POV already expressed.

Can we stay with sympathy for the situation as its complex and wish her well or write to GN instead of an inquisition?

Allsorts Fri 06-Jun-25 22:29:07

Hideous things. Note the men go around nice and cool often in western dress. how do you know enjoy in there.

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:28:05

Dickens

Sarnia

No. It isn't a religious requirement as far as I know. It's purpose seems to be displaying the subservience of women who wear them.

As far as I am aware, the Koran does not, explicitly, demand that women are completely covered in this way, but calls for both men and women to be covered 'modestly'.

I once saw a family group in Russel Square, London, where the women were all wearing the niqab and the loose, black, abaya, whereas the men (apart from one elder family member) were wearing tight jeans and t-shirts.

So clearly, the demand for 'modesty' didn't apply to them.

Should we care? I don't know. But it's so alien to our own culture. And, as a feminist of sorts, this subservience of women is something I find hard to accept.

Of course, someone will tell me possibly that the women might choose to dress like that. Maybe they do. But, what if they don't?

Women fight for equality, not to be treated as second-class citizens, not to be coerced by men into subservience - yet multi-culturalism demands that we make exceptions. And this, I think, is what causes problems, the problem of accepting multi-culturalism - where all cultures are supposedly equal, when clearly they aren't. At least, not if the women are being forced to wear a garment they would rather not wear.

I don't care about the men wearing western casual dress - but the hypocrisy of such men is worrying. I once had an online debate with a Muslim male about western culture. It wasn't so much what he said, but his attitude towards me, as a female with an opinion was quite unpleasant, to say the least, particularly as the conversation started quite civilly. It ended with him suggesting that eventually western women would be forced to come to heel (for want of a better way of expressing it).

... these are the issues that are not addressed, and doing so is likely to be met with accusations of bigotry. I don't know how many women dress 'modestly' either to please their men or because it's demanded of them - maybe they are a minority, there's no way of knowing. If they are doing so by choice, then that's their choice, so who's to say they should be banned from wearing the garment? Although I do agree that covering the face in institutions like nurseries, schools, etc, should be. And - do the women object? If they work in these institutions, probably not.

As far as I am aware, the Koran does not, explicitly, demand that women are completely covered in this way

It does not.

It is subjugation of women by men and not a religious requirement.

woodenspoon Fri 06-Jun-25 22:12:31

The person who reported FGT should be utterly ashamed of themselves. At a time when most other posters are supporting her, through her issues, some cruel person does this. It’s not difficult to work out who this could be either. Shame on you.

Galaxy Fri 06-Jun-25 22:11:16

So this is the problem for those who support free speech. I see lots of posts I could report ( the Trump threads where someone said certain states should be fenced off because of the way they voted) but because I believe people should be able to say what they feel I don't report. In the interests of transparency I have reported some of the anti semitic posts on the Israel threads butI don't know if it is the right thing to do.

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:09:50

lafergar

*a local women in the UK throwing on a burka as she pleases.
You are making light of a serious issue*

Not making light, making a comment based on observation.

Whst observation, if you don't mind me asking?

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:03:55

Teazel2

GrannyGravy13

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

What can she have posted to warrant being banned?

I expect someone reported her.

I wonder who? 🤔

Jaxjacky Fri 06-Jun-25 22:03:06

GrannyGravy13

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

At the worse time of her life too where people on other regular threads were giving her comfort and friendship, now lost.

Teazel2 Fri 06-Jun-25 21:59:42

GrannyGravy13

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

What can she have posted to warrant being banned?

woodenspoon Fri 06-Jun-25 21:36:16

GrannyGravy13

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

Why? What has she said ? And who reported her I wonder?

lafergar Fri 06-Jun-25 21:26:44

*a local women in the UK throwing on a burka as she pleases.
You are making light of a serious issue*

Not making light, making a comment based on observation.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 06-Jun-25 21:25:17

Galaxy

I didn't see the post, was it on this subject?

Yes

Galaxy Fri 06-Jun-25 21:22:55

I didn't see the post, was it on this subject?

GrannyGravy13 Fri 06-Jun-25 21:20:12

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

Aveline Fri 06-Jun-25 21:15:12

I'm on the same twitter feed by women from Saudi Arabia. They are begging Western women to support them in freeing them from repressive clothing rules dictated by men.
The pictures I posted are from one group called daughters of Persia.
This is UK. Women here are free. None of them should have to hide away in a 'linen prison' as they call it.

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 21:14:57

lafergar

GrannyGravy13

I know for a fact that it is not always the women’s choice.

You only have to look at Afghanistan to see how women have had their rights eradicated.

I think we are straying into some very strange territory if we are comparing the hideous subjubation of women in Afghanistan with a local women in the UK throwing on a burka as she pleases.

Do you not realise some women are subjugated and controlled even in our liberal society.

a local women in the UK throwing on a burka as she pleases.
You are making light of a serious issue.

CariadAgain Fri 06-Jun-25 21:14:03

Galaxy

I am currently reading a twitter feed which has asked women in Saudi Arabia to talk about face coverings, it gives them anonymity and a chance to speak, woman after woman is saying it isn't a choice.

That is SO constructive a thing for someone to have done - ie an anonymous thread - giving women the chance to say the truth, without any worries there will be a comeback at them for doing so.

Now we can see their true feelings - rather than men speaking for them...