Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

GrannyGravy13

I know for a fact that it is not always the women’s choice.

You only have to look at Afghanistan to see how women have had their rights eradicated.

I think we are straying into some very strange territory if we are comparing the hideous subjubation of women in Afghanistan with a local women in the UK throwing on a burka as she pleases.

It sometimes is a choice and sometimes isnt. Dependent on where you are round the world and your particular circumstances including even which family in the same community.

I know for a fact that it is not always the women’s choice.

You only have to look at Afghanistan to see how women have had their rights eradicated.

male

Teazel
Woodenspoon

What we are normally asked to do in certain countries is dress more!

I think we should be liberal, all are welcome here and Moslems are mostly loving, caring, hardworking people, I’ve worked with a good few, make and female!

I am currently reading a twitter feed which has asked women in Saudi Arabia to talk about face coverings, it gives them anonymity and a chance to speak, woman after woman is saying it isn't a choice.

“Wore”

Absolutely not and we all masks, some of which were huge, along with hoods on cold days, in Covid, we wore gas marks in the war!

Perhaps we should ban headscarfs and wearing crucifixes and balaclavas.

Aveline

What if it's not their choice?

What if it is and how on earth would you know what women choose to wear?
Maybe some women like to esr it...it's quick and easy and covers all? Why not?

woodenspoon

It doesn’t fit with our way of life. Some call it ‘modern Britain’ but were we ever asked if we wanted this alien way of life transported over here? I don’t think so. When people go to Dubai for example there are very strict rules travellers have to adhere to. There are no excuses made if you don’t. Many Westerners are in prison for not adhering to the rules in other countries. Yet here people are allowed to build a country within a country and we are all expected to suck it up or be called racist. If people move to the UK then they should fit in with Western ways which doesn’t mean wearing a full burqa.

👏👏👏👏👏

What if it's not their choice?

Surely the Highway code should ban anyone covering their eyes while driving. If women are going to wear a burka driving they should be expected to take an eye test wearing it. This will include tests of field of vision.

I do not think we should ban anything, but we should make it clear places and circumstances where having your full face visible would be compulsory - just as motorcyclists take their helmets off. Going into public buildings, anywhere there are security constraints, including preventing crime, so if you went into a bank your face must be fully visible, also when using a cash machine, driving unless you have passed an eye test in the garment. Men who would wear their hoods up when walking do not do so when driving.

Those who wear the burka - wear it and accept that wearing it will restrict where you can go.

Yes

CariadAgain

More "How do they actually manage to 'live their lives' whilst wearing a "shroud"? "

How do they eat? How do they sneeze? How do they lip-read someone else wearing one?

There may be a few that wear them by genuine choice - but I'd be willing to bet most of the wearers of them are doing so "by quiet force". As in I've come to the conclusion many people/maybe most people just go through life doing what is easiest not to be a "tall poppy that gets noticed - and some might cut them down". So if their relatives/husband/friends are wearing this - then I wouldnt be at all surprised if a lot of the wearers are only wearing them because of cultural pressure - rather than by informed thought-out personal choice.

Most people like to conform to what they see as "societal norms". The last 5 years were an object lesson for all of us on that front...

I suppose you could ask somebody who wears one?

The people I know tend to throw it on for the school run and put it on a peg as soon as they come home.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202506/medium-7fjxp2-screenshot-20250606-195130.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202506/medium-90ccpx-screenshot-20250606-195204.png

Tragedy for women

Why is it only women who have to wear a burkha? It's a symbol of female oppression. Look at the photographs of middle eastern women in the 70s and compare them to now. Why the clamp down?

Primrose53

lafergar

Primrose53

Yes it should be banned. In many cases they are very dangerous. Go to Leicester and see the women driving around in great big 4 x 4s with full face coverings and just a slit to see through. You can’t tell me that’s safe.

Is it the garment, the car or the people in Leicester that cause you such concern please?

I thought it was obvious.
I am talking about those huge 4 x 4s which could cause serious injury or death if the woman driving has only a narrow slit to see through. It’s half the sized of your average letterbox so imagine how little you could see.

Do you have any data to hand about women driving 4x4 cars wearing a face covering half the size of a letterbox causing accidents?

According to other people "they" are subservient and unable to do much for themselves, let alone drive a big car.

It doesn’t fit with our way of life. Some call it ‘modern Britain’ but were we ever asked if we wanted this alien way of life transported over here? I don’t think so. When people go to Dubai for example there are very strict rules travellers have to adhere to. There are no excuses made if you don’t. Many Westerners are in prison for not adhering to the rules in other countries. Yet here people are allowed to build a country within a country and we are all expected to suck it up or be called racist. If people move to the UK then they should fit in with Western ways which doesn’t mean wearing a full burqa.

As good Catholic girls in the 60s we were obliged to cover our heads when attending Sunday mass until we thought sod that for a lark, it was just symbolic of controlling male ideology and we wanted no truck with it.
Wear what you want ladies but don't try and pretend it's got nothing to do with male dominance. And don't make such a bloody song and dance about how "modest" you are or not, nobody cares.

I take your point Luckygirl3 but what I discovered on reading up was that a traditional approach also means men wearing "modest dress code" (the head and between the waist and the knees). Yes within different Muslim countries it varies!

I found a long Wiki article on female Muslim dress through the world country by country (skim read!) and it did allude to the pressures of why a bit too. I doubt anyone would want to read it but
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_veiling_practices_by_country

I agree with your last sentence, that makes total common sense, it is put into place in relevant institutions.

Given how important human faces are in communication, I find it hard to accept that a burqa is apparel in the same way as most other clothes are.

Then there is the point that other face coverings have to be removed in certain circumstances. In banks I even had to remove my cycle helmet when I was cycling regularly even though it didn't cover my face. This is irrational.

And then there is the fact that it's only women's faces (and the rest of them) that has to be covered, never men's. I cannot accept this sexist inequality is really fundamentally tolerable in a democratic society.

I have only read the first page but do people understand what a burka is?

It’s different from women wearing a hair scarf (my Gran covered her hair all the time as did the Queen) or a hijab

It is more than a fashion choice for many and represents their culture and religion, or that of their family. As long as they have free choice in the matter then that is OK.

But in some situations it is to be debated whether it might be appropriate to lower or remove it - I am thinking legal situations like being on a jury - there would be no way of knowing if the same person were turning up each time.

Personally I hate seeing them - they destroy the most basic aspect of human communication which is reading people's expressions. But what I think simply does not matter as no-one is forcing me to wear one.

It has to be acknowledged that the history of the burqa relates to a desire by men to have women cover their bodies - part of the male ownership principle that has dogged all cultures to some extent or another. I do see them as a backward looking item and I simply do not believe any woman who says she wears it as a fashion item.

Should we ban them? - I do not think the law can dictate what people wear, but in some situations asking someone to show their face is necessary and appropriate.

growstuff

Snap Wyllow.

Yes, its not to deny Dickens point, its rather to enlarge on the theme.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our <a target="_blank" rel="noopener" href="https://www.gransnet.com/info/netiquette">Talk guidelines.</a>

I don't believe (b) to be correct because it is as much a cultural matter as a religious one.

People have different ideas about a modern United Kingdom.

For example many believe as a liberal democracy we should allow people the right to choose as opposed to telling people what to wear/not wear within sensible guidelines that we've discussed above already with degrees of face coverings across the board

ie dress codes in schools, hospitals, safety concerns, need for masks or not and so on .