U turn on winter fuel payments- is it a good move?

I understand that giving universal benefits to groups of people, in this case the elderly, is a less costly way to distribute money than targeting certain sections of the population. The new option for this benefit at least removes those who really do not need the £200/300 p.a. I personally feel that the payment is still being given to too many pensioners, I would prefer the money to be targeted at those in fuel poverty, families with young children who need warm accommodation, not me who can more easily cope without putting my central heating on (usually less than 5 times a year).

We will be grateful to receive the winter heating allowance but feel it should be given in January. The reason being is that is when the big bills start to come through and also it is not to buy the grandchildren more Christmas presents! Our neighbour was up in arms when she didn't get the WHA as she wanted to spend it on the grandchildren. We scrimped and saved to insulate our house properly and so glad we did as losing the WHA made a huge difference to us and we found ourselves scrimping again. Friends have also had to cut down to cover the extra cost of winter heating.

I think we should be looking at the wider UK poverty statistics.
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn07096/#:~:text=Some%20groups%20are%20more%20likely,and%20Pakistani%20(47%25)%20households.
Nobody would want anybody living in poverty, of course. However there are many other groups who are in poverty as well, and there is a distinct lack of magic wands. If the basic state pension was raised to a higher level so that there was no need for means testing of any elements, many pensioners who also have occupational pensions would be much better off than many younger working adults, who generally have more financial commitments. That isn’t fair, surely.

I think it is right, because the alternative presented - applying for help via Pension Credit - is almost impossible to do.
It's a lot easier to apply for Universal Credit than Pension Credit, and yet many of the people who need the latter are cognitively or visually impaired. Even if you're not, it's still jolly difficult. And it was a completely unnecessary own goal by a new government.

What sort of a Labour Government starts out its programme by kicking the elderly ?

Too right they have to do a u turn.

Although I wasn’t dependent on the WFA I did find that this winter I was more careful about my use of gas and electricity, something that I should have been doing anyway. I hope that, with its reinstatement I’ll continue to be careful for the sake of the environment. As a lifetime Labour voter I still can’t get my head round why they removed the WFP because it has overshadowed all of the good things they have done eg free breakfasts for schoolchildren, money being allocated to fix pot holes etc etc.

The anger and ‘I told you so’ comments on social media is astounding. The tories 14 years of austerity never attracted so much vitriol. I admit I was mystified by their decision but we voted them in so let’s see what comes next. True I am a working class Labour supporter but in the interest of keeping out the tories I have been voting for our local LibDem.

I don’t know why the decision keeps being referred to as a U turn. It’s a populist concession to benefit less well off pensioners, not a U turn. The policy hasn’t been reversed. In future it will be means tested. That may not seem important now, but it will be.

I've just been reading indignant posts on Facebook from someone who says he's a musician and doesn't earn £34,999 pa, nor do the check out operators in supermarkets.

The cut-off point had to be someone and the average salary of working people in the UK is £37,430 so obviously some will earn less than that or it would not be an average.

Seems they can't win whatever they do!

someone somewhere

Lfranc72

The anger and ‘I told you so’ comments on social media is astounding. The tories 14 years of austerity never attracted so much vitriol. I admit I was mystified by their decision but we voted them in so let’s see what comes next. True I am a working class Labour supporter but in the interest of keeping out the tories I have been voting for our local LibDem.

That's politics for you! So many people are guided by their base instincts rather than their brains - and some politicians know exactly how to appeal to base instincts.

Allira

I've just been reading indignant posts on Facebook from someone who says he's a musician and doesn't earn £34,999 pa, nor do the check out operators in supermarkets.

The cut-off point had to be someone and the average salary of working people in the UK is £37,430 so obviously some will earn less than that or it would not be an average.

Seems they can't win whatever they do!

I think we live in angry times. It seems some people can't be happy unless they have something to be angry about - they should be warned it won't do their blood pressure much good.

albertina

What sort of a Labour Government starts out its programme by kicking the elderly ?

Too right they have to do a u turn.

Hope you feel happier now!

Hevs

I think it is right, because the alternative presented - applying for help via Pension Credit - is almost impossible to do.
It's a lot easier to apply for Universal Credit than Pension Credit, and yet many of the people who need the latter are cognitively or visually impaired. Even if you're not, it's still jolly difficult. And it was a completely unnecessary own goal by a new government.

Applying for Pension Credit really isn't impossible. If people really do have problems with the form, there are charities who can help.

growstuff

Allira

I've just been reading indignant posts on Facebook from someone who says he's a musician and doesn't earn £34,999 pa, nor do the check out operators in supermarkets.

The cut-off point had to be someone and the average salary of working people in the UK is £37,430 so obviously some will earn less than that or it would not be an average.

Seems they can't win whatever they do!

I think we live in angry times. It seems some people can't be happy unless they have something to be angry about - they should be warned it won't do their blood pressure much good.

Judging by other posts, it's being so angry keeps him happy!

Thankfully I don't know him, he's just on a local page.

Yes, it's good that the WFA of either £200 or £300 is being reinstated to those pensioners receiving less than £35K.
That it should NEVER have been applied in such an irrational and draconian way, without consultation, just shows how little thought was given to the effects of such a policy in the first place.
Don't you think that this £35K cut-off point is very interesting?
People are missing a very important point here.
Why such a discrepancy between the personal allowance of £12,570 before the iniquitous tax-take kicks in, and this £35K poverty level?
Surely, the Personal Allowance will now HAVE to be set at a level commensurate with reality?
How about a PA of £20K to start with?
Somehow, I don't see either of the two withered cheeks of the same Uniparty bum adopting a Reform policy, can you?

That’s because Tory austerity was nothing of the sort, there is worst to come, the pigeons have come home to roost.

As far as WFA is concerned a couple with an income of £70k is way above the “moderately comfortable” level so it’s not a U Turn it’s a give away.

The spending review is highly optimistic.

Chazz01

Yes, it's good that the WFA of either £200 or £300 is being reinstated to those pensioners receiving less than £35K.
That it should NEVER have been applied in such an irrational and draconian way, without consultation, just shows how little thought was given to the effects of such a policy in the first place.
Don't you think that this £35K cut-off point is very interesting?
People are missing a very important point here.
Why such a discrepancy between the personal allowance of £12,570 before the iniquitous tax-take kicks in, and this £35K poverty level?
Surely, the Personal Allowance will now HAVE to be set at a level commensurate with reality?
How about a PA of £20K to start with?
Somehow, I don't see either of the two withered cheeks of the same Uniparty bum adopting a Reform policy, can you?

You do realise that people with incomes below the tax threshold (and there are many) wouldn't benefit at all and that people all the way up the income scale would benefit from lifting the threshold, unless adjustments were to be made to the tax people up the scale pay (either tweaking thresholds or increasing the per cent people pay).

Then there would be more anger. More moaning. More people shouting "it's not fair!"

Chazz01 Do you always describe political parties in such derogatory terms? It sounds like the kind of language primary school pupils use.

I agree. The previous threshold was far too low .

albertina

What sort of a Labour Government starts out its programme by kicking the elderly ?

Too right they have to do a u turn.

Absolutely agree with you there. It was a horrendous start to this government's first term

How did a Labour Government not know that lots of people needed the annual payment to get through the winter? How did they manage in one fell swoop to show how ignorant they are in not knowing how people live? But they know how to blame the previous government, just get.on and do YOUR job.

Doodledog

keepingquiet

Wonder how many people will post now they got what they wanted?

I will certainly be eligible if it's for those on less than £25 000 pa.

However, on the news now it's just more government baiting... seems they can't do right for doing wrong...

I think that in years to come this government's term will be used in schools as an example of how the media influence opinion. I've been interested in that sort of thing all my life, and have never seen things as bad as this. Maybe that's because there are more media sources than ever before, and because 'ordinary' people have access to them in ways that allow everyone to give their opinions, but it's been poisonous.

I have said for a fair few years, Doodledog, that there are many, many small groups of very noisy, shouty people putting their points of view forward - he who shouts loudest gets heard!

No point in marriage then. Still seems strange to give benefit to well off/ rich households.

RSALLAN2002

No point in marriage then. Still seems strange to give benefit to well off/ rich households.

Doesn't love have anything to do with it?

Actually, there are financial advantages to marriage, especially if there is likely to be inheritance tax or pensions.

I give up! First we have moans about denying poor people a vital lifeline, then we have moans about giving benefits to rich households. Moan, moan, moan!