Radio 4 and Starmer

PIP does not have a high fraud rate, it is minimal.

Just possible that these semi U turns are part of a crafty plan to make them look good.

No WFP . . . Now they’re giving to smaller number and getting praised.

Cutting benefits -but now still cutting them but changing the rules-a victory ?

Will this be the pattern? Harsh cuts then backtrack to a less harsh cut?

Yes I know MaizieD, but that wasn’t my point, which was how short peoples memories are, and how much personal political leanings affect the tone of posts if they don’t compare and contrast before they post.

Oh, sorry, I see I have quoted from Casdon's post, not Cossy's Apologies, Cossy 😕

What is ironic is that even the initial welfare cuts proposed by Labour were considerably less harsh than those proposed by the Tories. People don’t always join the dots.

These cuts are not only cruel, but they are totally unnecessary. The national economy isn't a household or a business. It doesn't have to earn money or run a surplus. It should spend public money, which it creates itself, to maximise the wellbeing of all citizens. We would particularly expect a Labour government to be mindful of that.

As it is, the only wellbeing that is being improved is that of the already wealthy. Are you, for example, aware that when the wealthy buy government bonds with the government money that they have already sucked out of the economy by way of rents and excessive business profits, they are paid interest on those bonds by the government,(at above inflation rates of interest so they are gaining more money all the time) and so are in receipt of even more government money?

I thought these cuts were to encourage people who are on their way to ending up on long-term sick leave, to access support to get back to their old job or change to a new situation that may be less challenging.
There is a developing trend that increasing numbers of working age people are taking sick leave because of stress, other mental health issues, or chronic pain without a progressive diagnosis but not finding a way of getting back to work. The trend is accellerating and has two worrying consequences - first the drain on the benefits system but also most of these people would want to be back working but the longer they are off, the less likely that is to happen.
Absolutely not that they are benefit cheats, just that being off-work too long may be making the original condition worse, & led to a downward spiral in health & confidence.
So making it harder to get the health element of Universal Credit could focus everyone on trying to identify how to get people back into the workplace at the optimal time & in the gentlest way possible.

Ilovecheese

But it is the people who voted Labour because they wanted Labour values who are being ignored and sidelined. People who would normally have voted Conservative are surely getting a Government of Conservative values and policies.

Precisely.

MaisieD is perfectly correct about Reeves having no understanding of economics

Neither have I but I can see incompetence when it stares e in the face. Why Starmer has not sacked her yet is beyond me.

Is Keir Starmer perfect - no. Does he have the best interests of this country at heart - yes; unlike:

David Cameron
Boris Johnson
Nigel Faridge

A poster above said she ‘despises’ KS. I have lived with PMs that I despised for almost 14 years (I did not despise Theresa May & Richi Sunak). But I certainly did despise Cameron & Johnson.

As for Faridge, there are no words!

As Casdon says, people don’t join the dots. They say I won’t vote Labour again because they’re cutting benefits … so, I’ll vote Reform. And what is Reform’s policy towards benefits🙈🙈🙈

If Reform wins the next GE (a very big ‘if’) every one of us will pay the price, but hey ho - people will have got what they wanted!

I can tell you, as I was working in the DWP, this was a very damaging policy, the benefit cap, coupled with the rules around housing, I was working with Essex family workers and it was awful to see people suddenly having drop in their finances. This is when reliance on food banks and charities started. Of course if any household member was in receipt of DLA or PIP or worked more than 16 hours a week the cap did not apply, it did however impact many many families and single people.

Goodness knows what I meant by Starmer being “fair and scared” Think I meant stable! Seriously feel I’m losing what few marbles I have left - sorry for a nonsense post!

Please, please give us an edit feature)

What is ironic is that even the initial welfare cuts proposed by Labour were considerably less harsh than those proposed by the Tories. People don’t always join the dots.

Just a reminder:
In 2015 George Osborne introduced a benefits cap, which was intended to limit the amount any household could receive in benefits to £26,000, was cut to £23,000 in London and £20,000 elsewhere.
Working-age benefits were frozen for four years.
Employment and Support Allowance for people with disabilities was cut by £30 a week.
Those under the age of were to be stopped from claiming housing benefit.
Hey Ho.

Fair not far!

I wasn’t even going to bother comment, but really, some of the venom directed at Starmer is quite staggering, particularly following a govt that deemed Johnson and Truss as PMs.

He will have been in power a full 12 months very soon. Most new job roles are a full 12 months to totally bed-in, according to some HR professionals. I don’t think negotiating and changing one’s plans is necessarily a bad thing. Isn’t that what democracy and being far is all about?

Btw, PIP has a high fraud element, in comparison to Universal Credit and an appalling assessment process. It needs overhauling.

Still, I voted Labour and would do so again. I think they’ve had an appalling start and I’m not a fan of Reeves, but I feel Starmer is a fair and scared man and believes in Labour, however he is a centralist so won’t appeal to many Labour supporters. I also happen to quite like Rayner, I like her passion and straight talking!

The Conservatives were, and still are, unelectable. What were people supposed to do? And all parties are looking over their shoulder at Reform because the electorate seem to be being wowed by them even though most of what they spout makes no sense.

But it is the people who voted Labour because they wanted Labour values who are being ignored and sidelined. People who would normally have voted Conservative are surely getting a Government of Conservative values and policies.

Why do you think Labour thought it would be easy? Weren’t they criticised for saying that it wouldn’t be and not being super happy and optimistic?

nanna8

Hope you’ve got your flak jacket on - most people here seem to love the man ( not me ).

Me neither.

What is the point in my(?) and many other millions of people voting Labour if they do not behave like a Labour government?
This is what happens when people vote tactically and do not consider who and what they are voting for. Many people who voted Labour are not Labour supporters; they simply wanted Conservatives out. Voting Labour was the simplest option: 'they can't be any worse than the Tories.'
Well, that illusion didn't last long, hence the rush to Reform.
Being in Government is not nearly so simple as Labour believed.

If he can't cope with thinking about both home and abroad he should have delayed this bill.

Makes the term ‘two tier Keir’ even more apt now, when those with disabilities will suffer more from now on than those on PIP already.

MaizieD

It's not U turn, it's barely a slight curve. Why are they countenancing cutting PIP at all? Why is Labour going for the poorest and most disadvantaged in society and leaving the seriously wealthy untouched? All they are offering as a 'concession' is to create a two tier system. Current PIP recipients will continue to receive the help they need to live independently, future claimants will struggle.

And why are they doing this? To satisfy Rachel Reeves' idiotic and economically illiterate 'fiscal rules'.

Governments with a sovereign currency, which they issue into the country through their spending, don't need to 'save money'. They need to spend it wisely to keep the economy moving, but spending it wisely is a completely different kettle of fish.

What happened last time we had a government bent on 'saving money'? I.e, the tories post 2010. We had a recession, people's wages stagnated and unemployment rose. We haven't recovered from this and we won't so long as Ms Reeves is chancellor because she doesn't understand how a national economy works.

Hope you’ve got your flak jacket on - most people here seem to love the man ( not me ).

You won't get any flak from me, nanna8, I am utterly horrified at the ineptitude of this government.

Agree totally MaizieD it’s hard to get my head around some of the political decisions Labour have made, I wouldn’t even have expected it of the Tories!

Ilovecheese

Because he sees himself as a global high hitter he thinks he does not need to consider the people in this country who have put him into that position. He has decimated the party membership, who elected him to the leadership, he is dismissive of his MPs, even though without them he would not be Prime Minister and he seems to believe that it was him that won his large majority, when in fact it was the collapse of the Conservative party.
A man with that much unjustified self esteem is not going to find it easy to listen to advice from those he considers unimportant. Hopefully he just might start listening now.

His sycophants are deliberately confusing the issue by talking about "signing on for PIP", instead of making an application. and by pretending that PIP is somehow related to getting a job. Martin Lewis has called them out on this sort of deliberate obfuscation.

I don’t think he wanted to see himself as a global high hitter. But international events have necessitated it; and, imo it’s good that he seems to have the knack of keeping everyone on side. Would you rather he ignored what is going on in the rest of the world? Because, like it or not, it’s going to affect all of us in one way or another.

Excellent post MaizieD - totally agree.

Any one of us or our children or grandchildren could be struck down by illness or accident at any time. Starmer, Reeves, Kendal, and others want to reduce any remaining support that can help people live with dignity and hope.
I despise them.