Radio 4 and Starmer

And, unlike Labour MP’s Conservatives don’t go against the whip when it comes to voting.

I don’t get that eazybee, as the Tories had an overall majority, just as Labour have now, so they had the mandate to do what they felt was necessary and get it voted through.

The Tory government tried but were constantly defeated by howls of outrage from Labour and massed votes against them.
And if people are given allowances for poor health of course it matters what it is spent on; indulging on alcohol, cigarettes, a junk food etc. simply ensures longer on benefits and avoidance of work.

Boz

What amuses me is that a Tory Gov. would not dare implement these Welfare changes.
But
All might be forgiven is they get to grips with illegal immigration.
But
The zeitgeist of the UK is moving to Reform and Mr. Farage.
And
Labour only got in with disenchanted Tory votes.

Spot on.

I agree that the messaging has been abysmal, and think that if someone had explained the reasoning behind some of the thinking it would have been a lot better. As we've seen on here, many people felt that the WTA was unnecessary as a universal benefit, but objected strongly when it was withdrawn, so maybe if the intention to pull it had been signalled, with reasons and expected outcomes it wouldn't have been so unpopular.

Again, the PIP debacle could have been much better handled if people had been told about measures to help people into work and the decisions explained, along with examples of how any money saved would be spent, and what measures would be in place to ensure that those in need don't miss out when changes are made.

I have been consistently aghast at how atrocious the comms have been from the start.

I didn't ask for AC back.
Just aware he seems to have nobody helping him get the messages out there.

When Blair came in I loathed the man and his crew but he did do some good things with Education - SureStart for example which straddled health and education.

The benefit bill is unsustainable.

What do you mean by 'unsustainable?

If you mean cost wise, then consider the fact that benefit payments are immediately spent into the local economy (and it matters not what they are spent on, any spending, whether others approve of what it is spent on ,or not, contributes to the economy, and so to GDP). Once it is spent it is subject to taxation, either direct or indirect, so some goes back to the Treasury.

Richard Murphy posted recently comparing the over all cost of health and disability benefits of about £70 billion (figures vary) with the cost of pension tax relief for those who can afford to save for their old age. This is also about £70 billion. While this money for a pension is being 'saved' it is 'dead money', doing nothing in the economy.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2025/06/28/pension-benefits-for-the-wealthy-are-on-average-more-than-maximum-pip-payments-a-year/

I don't have a particular problem with the pension tax relief in itself, but it strikes me as unfair that the government is willing to forgo £70billion potential tax revenue from money that otherwise contributes nothing to the economy for years while it is prepared to cut welfare benefits 'to save money''. Not only adversely affecting the very poorest and disadvantaged n society but also conveniently forgetting that the money disbursed helps to keep the economy moving and much of it returns as tax.

GrannyGravy13

Iam64

Yes Not Spaghetti, I find myself thinking where is Alistair Campbell when we need him

Making £££ on various podcasts, after dinner speeches, cashing in on his time as Tony Blair’s spin doctor.

Oh and for preparing/sexing up the document on WMD, wouldn’t like to see him anywhere near Downing Street again.

Yes you make a reasonable point but -he’s interesting and imo often spot on when interviewed or podcasting,
Anyway - I meant a generic AC. Mis management of WFA and Pip should and could have been avoided
I was discussing this with other LP members, the consensus was the govt is right. The benefit bill is unsustainable. It needs overhaul. We have some areas with 40% on sickness benefits, inevitably they’re deprived areas with poor employment prospects and high numbers of people dependent on substances. What happened to levelling up
It’s huge job for any government.

What amuses me is that a Tory Gov. would not dare implement these Welfare changes.
But
All might be forgiven is they get to grips with illegal immigration.
But
The zeitgeist of the UK is moving to Reform and Mr. Farage.
And
Labour only got in with disenchanted Tory votes.

Iam64

Yes Not Spaghetti, I find myself thinking where is Alistair Campbell when we need him

No, we don't need him!
Nor Cummings, nor any of those who are economical with the truth.

Good comment winterwhite 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

The last thing KS needs is a spin doctor. He just needs to listen to his own MPs and when he speaks remember that he’s addressing the ‘just about managing’ across the country who fear they will slide into not managing under his leadership.

Using welfare reform as a tool for raising money was a colossal mistake and I’m not sure he’ll successfully pull back from it, nor deserve to.

MayBee70

If you actually listen to TRIP's you'll find that Alastair does a lot more than give after dinner speeches [if he actually does them?]. And his podcast is very well balanced and informative, especially the Leading ones.

I have listened.

I jut cannot ever forgive Blair and his entourage for sending our AC to a needless war on the back of a sexed up dossier.

Remember the scientist who committed suicide, all those young lives lost.

If you actually listen to TRIP's you'll find that Alastair does a lot more than give after dinner speeches [if he actually does them?]. And his podcast is very well balanced and informative, especially the Leading ones.

Iam64

Yes Not Spaghetti, I find myself thinking where is Alistair Campbell when we need him

Making £££ on various podcasts, after dinner speeches, cashing in on his time as Tony Blair’s spin doctor.

Oh and for preparing/sexing up the document on WMD, wouldn’t like to see him anywhere near Downing Street again.

Starmer definitely needs a spin doctor!
Plunging straight in with welfare cuts, crudely executed and ill thought out is pretty crass!

Yes Not Spaghetti, I find myself thinking where is Alistair Campbell when we need him

Thanks MaizieD - interesting.

Iam64

He’s been successful in the herding cats job that goes with being labour leader . I hope he’s now aware he needs to listen, communicate effectively and fairly rather than assume his mp’s will continue to do as he says

I think he needs a spin doctor - the sort Tony Blair never opened his mouth without consulting!

SillyOma

While I agree about the higher taxes, the UK is in such a mess that the higher tax wouldn't solve the problems. We need a good infrastructure, well paid jobs, people that want to work and take pride in their areas. There is so much wrong I just don't think there is any party capable of sorting out the mess that politicians have allowed to happen over the decades.

Solving the problems requires long term thinking which 5 year term governments are very bad at.
Voters know nothing about economics ... it is not a core subject in spite of the fact that such knowledge is critical to voting wisely ( or.indeed becoming a politician).
The Grocer's Daughter approach to the economy is so entrenched now and, alongside the destructionmof a sense of community and social conscience, leaves us in a mess from which I see no way of extricating ourselves .... unless of course this government suddenly decides to behave like a Labour government.

While I agree about the higher taxes, the UK is in such a mess that the higher tax wouldn't solve the problems. We need a good infrastructure, well paid jobs, people that want to work and take pride in their areas. There is so much wrong I just don't think there is any party capable of sorting out the mess that politicians have allowed to happen over the decades.

Here you go. AI summary:

🧭 Overview
George Osborne, once dismissed as a lightweight political tactician, has had an outsized and enduring influence on British economic policy. As Chancellor from 2010 to 2016, he ushered in an era of austerity that continues to shape public spending and political orthodoxy nearly a decade after his departure from frontline politics.

🧨 Austerity as Ideology, Not Economics
Despite lacking formal economic training, Osborne managed to reshape Britain’s economic model. His justification for austerity leaned heavily on the now-discredited Reinhart and Rogoff paper, which falsely claimed that countries with debt-to-GDP ratios above 90% suffered significantly lower growth. This paper was later found to contain serious spreadsheet errors and selective data exclusions, invalidating its core conclusions.

Yet Osborne used it to build a political consensus that equated national budgeting with household finances—insisting Britain had "maxed out its credit card" and needed to "live within its means." This analogy, economically illiterate by academic standards, ignored basic macroeconomic principles—especially in a country with its own currency and central bank.

📉 The Austerity Legacy: Inequality and Institutional Decay
Osborne’s deep cuts to public spending were not evenly distributed. Local governments—especially in poorer, Labour-voting areas—were hit hardest. While wealthier pensioners and homeowners were protected (or even enriched by rising asset prices), working-class communities saw libraries closed, youth services dismantled, and councils bankrupted.

The social toll has been profound:

Real wages stagnated—Britain experienced the longest pay squeeze in 200 years.

Public services deteriorated—from healthcare to social care to transport.

Life expectancy stalled and “deaths of despair” rose.

Economists such as Simon Wren-Lewis and Paul Krugman criticized Osborne’s approach as economically destructive and unnecessarily punitive, arguing that borrowing for investment during a time of low interest rates would have been a more rational path to growth.

🧬 An Economic Consensus Cemented by Politics
Despite these criticisms, Osborne’s framework has become institutionally entrenched. Successive Chancellors—even from Labour—now operate under fiscal rules and constraints designed in Osborne’s image. His approach turned austerity into a bipartisan dogma, making deviation politically risky and intellectually unfashionable.

This institutional “lock-in” ensures that British economic policy remains haunted by the ghost of Osborne, even as his theories are increasingly discredited by academic and empirical evidence.

🔚 Final Verdict
George Osborne's legacy is less about policy success and more about ideological capture. With limited understanding of economics and reliance on flawed data, he nevertheless shifted the Overton window toward permanent austerity. His real victory was political: to embed a worldview in which shrinking the state is seen not only as necessary but virtuous—regardless of its social cost.

There appeared to be very little criticism, questioning or challenging of austerity - from any quarters.

I think there was, but most of the media didn’t report it because most reporters don’t have much of a clue about economics. There has been plenty of criticism in the last decade, though. Including from the IMF!

There was a splendid article in the New Statesman recently, about how George Osborne, a man with no economic knowledge at all, managed to impose austerity on us because it tallied with his ideological stance, despite economists saying it was wrong. Sadly, it’s behind a paywall, but I suspect I could get an AI summary of it…

I had private health cover in one job, When I changed employer I tried to get some private health cover as my terms / sickness cover in the new work were poor,

I was 43, fit and well but with a recent diagnosis of inflammatory arthritis. I was simply refused any cover.

I’m 76 now and still walk my dogs, work in my garden etc. the last twelve years I’ve been prescribed biologic disease modifiers for the RA. Fantastic and the initial cost per weekly pen injection £1200 per dose. Paid for by the nhs, It’s less now, patent changes. This expense, as my consultant predicted, was worth the cost as it’s kept me mobile and independent
Would I ever get private health care with a number of auto immune conditions - I doubt it

Cossy

I have some questions too:-

Mamie What is the current rate/s of Income Tax and do you pay National Insurance.

Teazel What exactly is covered by BUPA for £100 a month? That seems incredibly low? How old are you and are you in perfect health?

Last time I had BUPA cover (as a work “benefit”), it was worth £400 a month, it did not cover any pre-existing conditions and had an excess. I just cannot see how BUPA can offer a service such as this for £100 a month?

Wow, that is a lot to pay monthly. I went through an insurance broker and got that quote. I am nearly 67 and not too bad healthwise. I didnt question the quote and did ask if it went up at 70. Apparently it doesnt with no claims discount if no claims.