Is Sir Keir In The Last Chance Saloon?

You expect female leaders to be just like men , strong and resilient Calendergirl , I do not

But nobody would ever have called Thatcher anything other than strong and resilient.

Rachel Reeves looked like she hadn’t had a wink of sleep the night before.

It wasn’t a good look to be seen to be so upset, but her absence would have created heaps of comments.

But yes, I can’t think of a male politician crying in a similar position.

It weakens the argument for women to hold positions of power, if for whatever reason they cry when things get tough.

I can only think of Margaret Thatcher crying twice in public, once when her son went missing on some car rally abroad, and then when she left Downing Street.

Rightly or wrongly, you expect leaders to lead and appear strong and resilient, even when the chips are down.

Male or female.

I don't have enough personal experience of PIP to know whether it was a bad bill or not. On the face of it, taking money away from the disabled is never a good look - even though people are always complaining about benefit scroungers (irony there). It was always going to provide fodder for people to criticise the government. Even those who moan about the benefits bill and the alleged scroungers joined in.

My understanding is that the most severely disabled would have benefited because they would be made awards for life and would not have to face further assessments - surely that's a good thing.

The concern seems to be with the increasing number of young people claiming PIP, especially for mental health conditions. I haven't a clue why that is. I find it difficult to understand that young people have suddenly become more disabled. There needed to be a thorough and independent review to understand the reasons.

The reasoning seems to be that these young people would be better served if they had more support to find themselves work and be more independent and that paying them a benefit is discouraging them from helping themselves. I don't know whether that's true, but it needs looking at.

This is anecdotal, but I do know somebody who is now in his 40s who has a mental health condition, but would be perfectly capable of work with some support and allowances made for him. His parents have always paid him an allowance, so he has quite a good quality of life, and he receives PIP. He has no incentive to seek work and has become an expert on every entitlement going. He kicks up a fuss whenever he's called in for an interview with the DWP and I feel sorry for the people who have to deal with him.

I know the above person is only one individual. I'm sure many aren't like him, but I wouldn't betting that he's not the only one.

I can see some logic behind the proposed changes, but the bill was rushed. The party spin doctors should have explained it better to the public and made sure the backbenchers understood the reasoning and implications. Maybe it's not incompetence, but it's naivety on a grand scale.

Iam64

Madgran, it was chaos that could and should have been avoided
I don’t agree the govt is incompetent. It’s doing some excellebt things. Its comms are dire. Communication between no 10 and mps dire
Let’s hope Starmer is shaken enough to get on top of it

I think it is more than communication between No 10 and MPs. I agree it is chaos that should and could have been avoided.

But more to tge point is the actual nature of the Bill that caused the problem .... ot because the Welfare system shouldn't be reformed but because the "reforms" were stuck into a rushed bill for the wrong reasons, targeting the wrong areas and without proper consideration and talking to the right people. That is incompetence in a nutshell!

I agree some good things are being done but that is not compensating for a great deal of errors which are going to continue I suspect. Communication might improve if Starmer gets a grip on it. I'm not convinced anything else will!

Martin Lewis posted this on Twitter:

"I wouldn't ever want to be Chancellor for all the money in the world. Incredibly tough job. Impossible ask. Especially over the last decade.

How do you try to piece together the mis-shapen, independent jigsaw pieces of consumer issues, business, the economy, bond markets, stock markets, job markets, world economies, tariffs, and more.

People often lambast Chancellors as 'unqualified' but no one is qualified to do such a broad job. Ultimately it is a political role for someone with hopefully some understanding of wider economic, financial and consumer issues.

We have to give some respect to those who try, even if we disagree with their decisions. As no one will ever get it all right."

He has a point.

Shinamae

Iam64

Milsa, if it was easy to solve previous and current governments would have solved it

Most people arriving by small board will succced to asylum claims because they fulfil criteria

And where are these people going to live should they be granted asylum?..

In houses and flats.

Iam64

Milsa, if it was easy to solve previous and current governments would have solved it

Most people arriving by small board will succced to asylum claims because they fulfil criteria

And where are these people going to live should they be granted asylum?..

Supposedly the Speaker had had words with her earlier. I’ve complained to the Speakers Office before about the way that he speaks to MP’s from all parties.

Starmer, Rayner and co didn’t seem bothered that she was upset.

Retroladywriting

woodenspoon

Exactly, who would be better? Theres nobody out there, anywhere. All are poor and I can’t think of any outstanding leadership candidates in any party. I won’t be voting for Kemi Badenoch that’s for sure.

Years ago we were spoiled for choice. If one was forced out, there was always somebody or several to choose from. Those days are over.

Kemi Badenoch has gone right down in my estimation for drawing attention to Rachel Reeves obvious distress. What happened to #bekind?

Yes, it was sticking a knife in then turning it. Very unpleasant.
Rachel Reeves had obviously been weeping before then, not just a tear or two. It was a mistake to be there but I suppose she had to be present at such an important time.

I thought Starmer would be a safe pair of hands at the tiller and that we've had enough of 'charisma' but he needs a bit more sparky.

David49

Primrose53

Sparklefizz

But ... but ... but anyone's better than Angela Rayner!!!

Various sources suggest that she is just watching and waiting for her chance to be PM. I will get my popcorn and just watch. 😝

As McEnroe said many years ago “ you cannot be serious”

Starmer will stay, he may be forced to change his policies but will stay, I’m not so sure of Reeves her weakness today said it all. The MPs out voted her, you take it on the chin and fight another day, politics is a dirty game if you can’t hack it get out or better, don’t start.

The only Consequence of today is higher taxation, so be it.

I will remind you of this in a few months time. 😉

Sparklefizz

I thought her eyes were incredibly puffy as though she'd been crying a lot. She shouldn't have been there, for her own wellbeing and also for the optics. I hope she's ok.

My impression too and I agree about not being there if the upset was a personal matter.

Milsa, if it was easy to solve previous and current governments would have solved it

Most people arriving by small board will succced to asylum claims because they fulfil criteria

Calendargirl

None of them, Reform included, will get a grip on immigration.

Yes, I wonder, let's say, Reform win and that sorry but to me , he is hateful man, this man wins the PM position and I wonder, what he is going to do when a boat comes and another and another and another - just curious really

Presumably it is possible to fight on another day and show some emotion, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Primrose53

Sparklefizz

But ... but ... but anyone's better than Angela Rayner!!!

Various sources suggest that she is just watching and waiting for her chance to be PM. I will get my popcorn and just watch. 😝

As McEnroe said many years ago “ you cannot be serious”

Starmer will stay, he may be forced to change his policies but will stay, I’m not so sure of Reeves her weakness today said it all. The MPs out voted her, you take it on the chin and fight another day, politics is a dirty game if you can’t hack it get out or better, don’t start.

The only Consequence of today is higher taxation, so be it.

Ok so as has been stressed so often - the majority are fleeing Syria, Lebonon, Lydia. Iretria and other war torn African countries. The majority will get asylum as a result

What do yiu suggest is done

NanKate

The number of boat people arriving daily is alarming. I think the Tories idea of Rwanda might have worked.

The Labour Party definitely haven’t got a grip of this ever worsening situation.

Alarming and shocking! 20,000 arrived this year so far.

The number of boat people arriving daily is alarming. I think the Tories idea of Rwanda might have worked.

The Labour Party definitely haven’t got a grip of this ever worsening situation.

Sparklefizz

But ... but ... but anyone's better than Angela Rayner!!!

Various sources suggest that she is just watching and waiting for her chance to be PM. I will get my popcorn and just watch. 😝

Well put LizzieDrip

Sparklefizz

I thought her eyes were incredibly puffy as though she'd been crying a lot. She shouldn't have been there, for her own wellbeing and also for the optics. I hope she's ok.

I agree Sparklefizz.

I hope she’s ok too.

My sense is that there was something personal distressing her. Maybe Starmer said don’t attend PMQs but she insisted on going - we don’t know.

What I do know is that, if she hadn’t attended, the media would have had a field day … ‘Where’s the Chancellor’ ‘Why isn’t she there’ ‘What’s going on’ blah, blah, bloody blah.

Dammed if she does; dammed if she doesn’t.

Anniebach

Rachel Reeves didn’t wipe away tears , I read “wiped away a tear” one tear is not crying

From the footage, she definitely appears to be crying and wiping away tears.

I thought her eyes were incredibly puffy as though she'd been crying a lot. She shouldn't have been there, for her own wellbeing and also for the optics. I hope she's ok.