Is Sir Keir In The Last Chance Saloon?

She had obviously been crying before coming into the chamber. I actually think it was more damaging for Starmer than for Reeves.

Rachel Reeves didn’t wipe away tears , I read “wiped away a tear” one tear is not crying

Casdon

Pantglas2

Just watched the footage on the BBC news and Reeves was visibly crying - it reminded me of Thatcher and May when they left Downing Street after their tenure ended.

If it is a personal matter (rather than losing her job) then surely she didn’t need to be sitting in full view of the cameras during Starmer’s stint.

Can’t think of a male politician in tears…anyone?

It’s a good point Pantglas. Crying in public isn’t a male trait, probably been repressed all their lives. It is unfortunately visible to all, and marks women out as weaker than men in the eyes of the viewer, and you don’t forget - one of my first political memories is Margaret Thatcher wiping away the tears as she left Downing Street.

Yes the suggestion is women aren’t as strong as men. The reality is men are trained from infancy to suppress emotion, I’m so relieved my grandsons are not subjected to that at home. School, football, cricket, gymnastics, swimming and more, I’m not so sure of

Tears cannot be done " to order"

It must be total overwhelm. Something physiological kicks in.

Pantglas2

Just watched the footage on the BBC news and Reeves was visibly crying - it reminded me of Thatcher and May when they left Downing Street after their tenure ended.

If it is a personal matter (rather than losing her job) then surely she didn’t need to be sitting in full view of the cameras during Starmer’s stint.

Can’t think of a male politician in tears…anyone?

It’s a good point Pantglas. Crying in public isn’t a male trait, probably been repressed all their lives. It is unfortunately visible to all, and marks women out as weaker than men in the eyes of the viewer, and you don’t forget - one of my first political memories is Margaret Thatcher wiping away the tears as she left Downing Street.

Labour won the vote but only because of last minute concessions which rendered Starmer's welfare cuts legislation pointless.

Exactly.

Madgran, it was chaos that could and should have been avoided
I don’t agree the govt is incompetent. It’s doing some excellebt things. Its comms are dire. Communication between no 10 and mps dire
Let’s hope Starmer is shaken enough to get on top of it

Just watched the footage on the BBC news and Reeves was visibly crying - it reminded me of Thatcher and May when they left Downing Street after their tenure ended.

If it is a personal matter (rather than losing her job) then surely she didn’t need to be sitting in full view of the cameras during Starmer’s stint.

Can’t think of a male politician in tears…anyone?

Badenoch was licking her lips. What a ghastly woman she is.

Well, the supposed defeat for the government media storm turned into a damp squib didn't it?

Hardly!! The supposed "key reforms" in the bill were removed at the last minute whilst it was being debated. This is not normal or even good practice and it highlights the incredible mistakes made in terms of:

* the actual detail and potential impact of the original bill
*the whole methodology used for presenting and "selling" the bill
* the methods used to put the bill forward in it's original format, in the first place
*the completely wrong focus on what needs reforming in the welfare system

This debacle highlighted the overall incompetence of this government frankly. (And just to be clear I am no "right wing Tory", "Farage supporter"etc etc!)

She may well resign soon Iam64

I’m waiting to watch ch4 news Oreo. If RR became distressed when Starmer didn’t respond effectively to the awful Badenoch, that doesn’t bode well for their working relationship.
Having said that, in recent weeks I’ve begun to feel RR should go.

My own interpretation is that Reeves has had a difficult week and the bill being so watered down means no financial gain now.Starmer has saved himself by caving in to his rebel back benches so when Badenoch questioned Starmer at PMQ’s and asked if Reeves would still be here come the next election and her boss didn’t then defend her but just waffled then she became visibly tearful.

#be kind has lost its original meaning, especially when you know the being kind would not be reciprocated.
It is more often used as a criticism of anyone who says something you don’t like, in an increasingly wide range of circumstances.
I’m disappointed but unsurprised that KS did not back up RR, but left it to a rather vague Downing Street says . . .

Gosh , there's some horrible stuff going on.

Things feel very rocky.

woodenspoon

Exactly, who would be better? Theres nobody out there, anywhere. All are poor and I can’t think of any outstanding leadership candidates in any party. I won’t be voting for Kemi Badenoch that’s for sure.

Years ago we were spoiled for choice. If one was forced out, there was always somebody or several to choose from. Those days are over.

Kemi Badenoch has gone right down in my estimation for drawing attention to Rachel Reeves obvious distress. What happened to #bekind?

I’m not sure about whether or not he likes his own party but I think he has grave doubts about the capability of some of his cabinet ministers. He seems to be trying to do several jobs.

Plus the fact he doesn't seem to like his own party much.

Just for once I completely agree with your observation easybee Very astute, I think.

What is more, he doesn't seem to understand what a Labour party should stand for.

What might have been. I supported Ed in the leadership contest, just as I supported Michael Foot ( who I still admire as a wonderful person) all those years ago. I don’t seem to learn from my mistakes.

When does choosing not to stand morph into chickening out eazybee?
I still feel angry at what happened with that leadership contest, and I respected him for leaving politics altogether. I think that is as far he could get from chickening out too, it was a brave decision.
I don’t think he will return, but I wish he would.

David Miliband chickened out twice when he had the opportunity to stand, and was unable to defeat his untrustworthy brother. He is well out of it, and probably lacked the killer instinct.
Starmer meanwhile, can be ruthless, but not necessarily at the right moments, and I do not believe he has sorted out who he is and what he stands for. No idea who could replace him. I thought his position would be unstable, but as the result of dastardly plotting and a coup, not his own incompetence. Plus the fact he doesn't seem to like his own party much.

Badenoch's spokesperson said a "personal matter doesn't really clear it up" as "you normally tell people what the personal matter is".
Really? Does she know what personal means?
I admit to not being the greatest fan of Rachel Reeves but it is not pleasant to see someone so visibly upset in public.

Yes David Miliband , I was so sure he would have won

Oh dear, poor woman.

Casdon

Witzend

Anniebach

Andy Burnham didn’t get the votes , he stood twice

Maybe 3rd time lucky, then?

He’s not an MP though, so it would be a big gamble for him to give up the job (and power that goes with it) that he does well now, stand as an MP, uproot his family, then for Sir Keir to resign, and him to top the leadership contest against other candidates. It doesn’t seem a likely scenario. If we’re talking previous ministers, I’d prefer David Milliband who was the one that got away I think.

Yes, I agree about David Miliband, and personally I still blame Ed for his arrogance and hubris in thinking he was PM material, when so many people disagreed - except the more extreme Left, of course. IMO if he’d left it to David we wouldn’t have had Cameron, and we probably wouldn’t have had Brexit.
How he’s still got the nerve to be ‘serving the country’ in government I don’t know.