Is Sir Keir In The Last Chance Saloon?

Parsley3

I too remember the interest hike. We were also on the move and had to buy a house in an area that we did not like but could afford. It was a miserable time.

Same here. We had to move house at that time because of husband’s job and paid 15% interest on the house we bought. The mortgage repayments were crippling!

I too remember the interest hike. We were also on the move and had to buy a house in an area that we did not like but could afford. It was a miserable time.

And who remembers the enormous interest hike?
I'll never forget it! We had to move just at that time and find pay nearly double for a smaller house in a more expensive area. It was a very difficult time indeed.

Well put M0nica.
When we bought our first house, paying for it left me with £6pw housekeeping and DH walking 5 miles to work and then back.
And who remembers the enormous interest hike?
All my children found themselves in negative equity not long after buying their houses. Dire straits for one who needed to move 200 miles for a new job. The only option is to sit tight and wait if you can.

A very good summary, M0nica.

We did not buy houses 'cheaply' House prices were lower in real values because so much of our mortgage payments were taken up paying the very high interest rates current when we were house buying.

Put mortgage interest rates up to 10-12%, limit loans to 3 x the main income plus 3 x half the second income and watch how house prices would plummet, but houses would be no less difficult to buy, what decides house prices is the monthly payment lenders decide people can afford and what multiples of income they will give. Interest rates up and prices stagnate or fall, interest rates fall and prices sky rocket.

Demand and supply does come into it, but is nowhere as important as is generally thought. Similalry in the past a third of the population had secure tenancies in council housing, so, generally, were not interested in buying a property. Many were psuhed into buying their homes for unrealistically low prices by the Thatcher government so that now their children expect/are forced into owning their own houses because the council house tenancies that should have been available for them are no longer there.

It is easy to say casually I understand people feeling threatened at the idea of their house losing value if that notional wealth is their security. but for many people that means that they are in negative equity, owing more to the mortgage lender than their house is now worth and unable to downsize, because if they sell their current property they will be left homeless, unable to afford a smaller property and with a whopping unsecured debt owing to their lender.

This has happened several times in the past. In the late 1980s/early 1990s and during the financial crisis in 2008.

There are far to many facile critiques of housing and its provision by people with short memories or lack of understanding of the housing market as a whole.

I think it might be because a semi is now ‘worth’ ten times what it was (I would phrase it as ‘now costs’ ten times as much) that we need a party who will discuss making life better for ‘working people’.

I know that phrase (working people) irritates some, but I take it to mean the ones who work for a living and contribute their labour (manual or mental) and pay taxes. I assume it includes the retired who did likewise, too.

People don’t work down mines or in mills these days, but their children work in call centres or delivering goods - often for low pay and with very little security. They pay exorbitant rents to people who bought houses cheaply, and can’t afford to start families of their own. That is a basic right - even an instinct - that is being denied to those who want to provide for their own children.

Many have to use food banks and still get into debt because all it takes is a broken washing machine or something like an illness that tips them over the edge because their pay is reduced even more.

The government (particularly AR) has brought in measures to help the ‘precariat’ as this group is known, but they will need time to bed in. Ironically the precariat are the people on the proverbial coal face, many of whom who feel threatened by immigration and swayed by Reform.

Low-skilled work can be done by most people, and if an immigrant will do it more cheaply there are plenty of employers who will give the jobs to the lowest bidder. So the government is stuck between trying to be seen to reduce immigration (to stem the flow of supporters from Labour to Reform) being fair to working people and not hacking off older people and those who have done very well out of house price inflation and no longer identify as working class as a result. I understand people feeling threatened at the idea of their house losing value if that notional wealth is their security. Of course I do. But at least they have that security. Many of the younger generation don’t.

Someone needs to speak for them.

If we aren’t very careful we will end up with a real choice between genuine left and right, as opposed to what we are used to, which is a choice between left and right of a point that is nowhere near the centre, and either way the result will be catastrophic.

Well said.

Iam64

Anniebach

If Corbyn supported Reform so would Abbott

Anniebach, this is the first post from you in a while that made me laugh out loud. Yiu are absolutely right

Sultana was suspended some time ago, the news today reports she has left the LP to set up a left wing party to oppose the government. It’s said JCorbyn hasn’t confirmed he will join or lead that party. I rather hope the do set up separately. The can oppose the government in freedom. The government would be held to account. Voters could decide if they vote Labour or leftie labour. Interesting

The ballot papers will be A4 size before long!

Another agreement from me Annie about the need for Labour to find it’s place in a world so different than the one it was born in
My former mill, industrial town is very different, even than when I moved here 55 years ago. Employment was high, plenty of apprenticeships in engineering etc. my first semi cost £2500. It’s now worth about £250,000

We were always an area that predicted whether Labour or conservatives would win the election. Current mp Labour. Good but if the Conservatives and Reform had agreed to stand one down, the combined reform and conservative vote would have meant a small majority for Labour.

Labour cannot stay in the time of ironworks, coal mines, slate
quarries , I live in South Wales, I can remember 70 years all the above , many large factories all gone. When I moved back here nearly 3 years ago so different yet young people talk of wanting to buy their homes, that certainly wasn’t the norm 70 years ago

We’ve always needed people like Corbyn on the back benches to remind Labour of their roots and core beliefs. I just don’t think he should have become leader. Like Johnson he seemed to surround himself with his cronies and dismiss the elder statesmen of the party. I can remember him one day in parliament looking daggers at Hilary Benn when he was making what I thought was a great speech.

I agree anniebach, it seems likely to happen. The complaints that the government isn’t true to Labour values linked to the poor management of wfa and pip (In brief) miss the good things already started and the long term aims

We definitely need clearer vision and better communication between front and back benches. What an absolute chaos they inherited though

Iam I really believe it true , Corbyn made her shadow Home Secretary . Yes Corbyn “talks are ongoing “

Imagine a Corbyn party, a Sultana party, a Galloway party at a general election eeek

Anniebach

If Corbyn supported Reform so would Abbott

Anniebach, this is the first post from you in a while that made me laugh out loud. Yiu are absolutely right

Sultana was suspended some time ago, the news today reports she has left the LP to set up a left wing party to oppose the government. It’s said JCorbyn hasn’t confirmed he will join or lead that party. I rather hope the do set up separately. The can oppose the government in freedom. The government would be held to account. Voters could decide if they vote Labour or leftie labour. Interesting

Abbot was shadow home secretary

Abbott is one of the reasons why many people didn’t vote for Corbyn as they knew she would be in his cabinet. A great, groundbreaking politician she had been but people could see she was not the force of old. ( and yet, for some reason, the very voters that are aware of things like that and vote accordingly then vote for the Trumps and Farages of this world ).

If Corbyn supported Reform so would Abbott

Iam64

“The left “ in the LP have been plotting Keir’s downfall since before he became leader. Boring lot

I agree Iam.

A new ‘left’ party would give them somewhere to go where they could all grumble and moan together, rather than constantly doing it from within the Labour Party.

I bet KS is hoping this new party gets off the ground - he’ll be glad to see the back of ‘em.

IMO some of them stood at the GE for a Labour Party they didn’t actually want to be part of - disingenuous to say the least. A new left party will give them a political home, so 👋

I wonder if Diane Abbot will go … or does she prefer being in the party of power🤔

nanna8

He’ll hang on- no one viable to take his place. Maybe if he got rid of that treasurer woman things might improve ?

Good heavens.

👏👏👏 “Iam”

“The left “ in the LP have been plotting Keir’s downfall since before he became leader. Boring lot

These so-called ‘disrupters’ make me laugh really.

None of them are actually disrupters. Yes, they may shake things up a little bit at first but, if any of them actually gained power, they would very quickly show that they’re part of the establishment.

He will have gained a much higher following than in 2016

David49

Casdon

I don’t think for a minute that Corbyn sees himself as a future PM now David49.
He was the Farage of the day, the following he had was huge, loyal, and blinkered, until he failed. He is not a stupid man though, his aim now is to disrupt and challenge not to lead.

He will fail at that too.
Contrast him to Farage who does inspire others to follow and really is a serious disruptor

He was all over the media at his peak. The only real difference between him and Farage (apart from the obvious political divide) was that he was leading an established party, not a start up, I think he will succeed at disruption, he still has a loyal following.