Is the U.K. really broken, or does it just need tinkering?

I also agree with you that many ££££££ were wasted by the previous govt., and not just on Covid!

I don't think that the people who ended up in receipt of those ££££££ thought they were wasted. (I'm thinking of all that useless, expensive PPE, consultancy fees and setting up completely new agencies instead of developing the ones we had. ) New yachts and expensive houses for the government's favoured mates and businesses... Waste? What waste?

This is thing about government pending, some of it always ends up in someone's pocket...

MaizieD

^I also agree with you that many ££££££ were wasted by the previous govt., and not just on Covid!^

I don't think that the people who ended up in receipt of those ££££££ thought they were wasted. (I'm thinking of all that useless, expensive PPE, consultancy fees and setting up completely new agencies instead of developing the ones we had. ) New yachts and expensive houses for the government's favoured mates and businesses... Waste? What waste?

This is thing about government pending, some of it always ends up in someone's pocket...

If we include HS2, Brexit and Covid at least £ 200 billion has been wasted by successive Tory governments, spread over 10 yrs, its small beer in an economy of £1300 billion.

its small beer in an economy of £1300 billion.

Are you having me on, David or being sarcastic?

A while ago you were saying that £3billion spent on asylum seekers was a seriously big deal...

Why are we worrying about a few trifles £20 billion is only 0.06% of the economy, just increase tax a bit.

The real issue is that in a year of government Starmer has achieved none of his aims, baulked at every point by left wingers including his own MPs.
How much more credibility is he going to loose, I liked his policies but every one he has backed down on

This rang a bell

Aveline😂

Aveline

This rang a bell

You could easily say “who wants change”

Then “who wants to change “

With exactly the same result

Everybody is always happy when other people's money is used to fund services.

Aveline

Everybody is always happy when other people's money is used to fund services.

So why isn't everybody supporting the latest bill? Why did all the parties (except most Labour politicians) vote against it?

This is what Badenoch said about the disabled:

“The world owes no one a living. Millions of people cannot just sit on welfare and expect to be paid to do so. And if they don’t like it, that’s their problem, not the state’s.”

You would have thought Conservatives would jump at the chance to reduce welfare payments.

I suspect that each MP is thinking of their own profile in their individual constituencies rather than the economy or the country as a whole.

Aveline

I suspect that each MP is thinking of their own profile in their individual constituencies rather than the economy or the country as a whole.

No1 priority of any polititian is self interest, getting elected next time, some even change party to do it.

I doubt significant economic growth can be achieved by the UK and, given the national debt burden ( on which interest can rise quite fast), I also doubt the UK can pay for all the public services people expect without additional borrowing (which would be very unwise) so taxation will have to go up. Given the amounts required that suggests VAT and/or income tax regardless of the Labour manifest ('Events, dear boy, events..,'). Wealth taxes might bring in some money but they have not been a great success in other countries. The problem of all taxation is it works against growth.

MaizieD

^Starmer has some redeeming qualities. His understanding of law, and real strengths as a statesman, in diplomacy and foreign affairs and handling Trump, that this country (and the world) cannot afford to lose right now.^

Fine as far as it goes, but he has no understanding of how a country's economy works (neither does Reeves) and appears to have little rapport with his MPs or with disadvantaged groups. He also has too much rapport with big business.

Additionally, he appears to have depended too much on his advisors and his chief of staff, McSweeny is catastrophically focused on winning the next GE by making Labour more Reform than Reform to attract right wing voters.

Oh for an advisor who would tell him to nationalise the utilities, put some serious money into the NHS and get rid of the private companies which are milking it for profit, do something about making taxation far more progressive and stop deferring to the wealthy... Oh, and get rid of Reeves...(though who on earth would succeed her I don't know. I fancy Clive Lewis, at least he appears to know something about how a country's economy works...)

I don't disagree. However, running a country takes more than one person; a team of competent specialists with real life expertise backed by hard graft researchers keeping them up to speed .

Reeves' flakey financial CV has fallen flat on its face. So predictable.

"Oh for an advisor who would tell him to nationalise the utilities, put some serious money into the NHS and get rid of the private companies which are milking it for profit, do something about making taxation far more progressive "

Hoots mon, whoever heard of ony country daein a' thon shite . Jings.

I so agree.
We need excellent public services and NHS care.
If these were good people wouldn't be concerned about dental bills etc.
So bite the bullet and raise taxes!

i think it needs a complete over haul . needs sifting out the idiots and let reform uk in . after all they cant be as bad as karmer .. all illegal immigrants ,should be sent back to where they came from . or not give them any money at all. if they havent found work in 3 months ship them off to ruanda . am not racist ,but enough is enough ,we are funding them with our taxes ,and yet they get free everything ..karmer over turning heating payments too late ..elderly and disabled need to be means tested ,,

I spend time in France where I have family and friends. Also, I was in Germany last year. The difference in quality of life between these two countries and the UK is staggering: Life is there so much more convivial: there is noticeably greater investment in local services: there is largely no rubbish in the streets and streets are washed. Food in restaurants and markets is infinitely superior and better value. This country desperately needs investment in infrastructure. There is an allergy to borrowing and to taxation which I think is ridiculous: I cannot see any other way forward. (Eg cutting services to the disabled is just not humane.) Plus we have to rejoin the EEC. Leaving was just plain suicidal.

Broken or badly managed? The NHS is badly managed but not completely broken. The same with some of the utilities and rail services. We also need to raise taxes to pay for an overhaul but those taxes have to be spent wisely so the public can see what their money is doing for them. Whilst you have to pay for good quality advice, the current advisors (including Deloittes and similar) we aren't getting that so we need to have a rethink there. We really need to take a holistic approach to revamp. If you talk to a Dr and discover how they need to access so many systems in order to see a full record of their patient, you'd understand why it is so difficult for them to work efficiently and in the best interests of the patient.

How anyone can look back at the past 40 years in politics and determine that anything has actually improved - no matter who has been in power - and not deteriorated simply bewilders me.
They have ALL had their chance, there has been zero accountability for mishandling the economy and everything else and whilst I do not trust Nigel Farage per se (though I do agree with certain things he says), I would not be so childish as to call him Faridge a la James O'Brien et al.
I also shake my head at this nonsensical parroting of 'far right'. If being against uncontrolled and illegal makes me far right then so be it. If a bus driver pulled up at a bus stop and refused to let anyone on because his vehicle was full and in danger of crashing, would that make him 'far right'.
In this political climate, anyone who speaks out against the government full stop is deemed far right. It's absolutely pathetic.

PS I have lived under 25 years of abysmal Labour rule in Wales. Everything is broken here.

To Whitewavemark2 - like you, I am probably between the middle & the far left but I think, as a nation, we need to face the fact that in order to have decent public services, taxes have to rise. We can't continue bemoaning the state of the NHS, education, potholes etc without the willingness to pay for services we all rely on.

There is no left anymore.
The right has gone crazy.
Left and right politics were always an illusion to keep us busy anyway.

Watch some old Yes, (Prime) Minister episodes. Not a thing has changed. Maggie and Blair started the rot.
All about me, me, me now.
Well, we wanted to be like America, we voted into power egotistical incompetents; s.hat on the huge market on our doorstep and now, here we are.
I don't know what can be done.

wendym8116

i think it needs a complete over haul . needs sifting out the idiots and let reform uk in . after all they cant be as bad as karmer .. all illegal immigrants ,should be sent back to where they came from . or not give them any money at all. if they havent found work in 3 months ship them off to ruanda . am not racist ,but enough is enough ,we are funding them with our taxes ,and yet they get free everything ..karmer over turning heating payments too late ..elderly and disabled need to be means tested ,,

You can't 'let ... in ... because they can't be as bad as ...)
They are always 10 times worse! And as for 'Nigel' with his investment banking background and German passport - well, light the blue touch paper and retire.

wendym8116

i think it needs a complete over haul . needs sifting out the idiots and let reform uk in . after all they cant be as bad as karmer .. all illegal immigrants ,should be sent back to where they came from . or not give them any money at all. if they havent found work in 3 months ship them off to ruanda . am not racist ,but enough is enough ,we are funding them with our taxes ,and yet they get free everything ..karmer over turning heating payments too late ..elderly and disabled need to be means tested ,,

Well, you could start with the truth!

How can asylum seekers find work when they're not allowed to work? Just asking!

Tenaciousd

How anyone can look back at the past 40 years in politics and determine that anything has actually improved - no matter who has been in power - and not deteriorated simply bewilders me.
They have ALL had their chance, there has been zero accountability for mishandling the economy and everything else and whilst I do not trust Nigel Farage per se (though I do agree with certain things he says), I would not be so childish as to call him Faridge a la James O'Brien et al.
I also shake my head at this nonsensical parroting of 'far right'. If being against uncontrolled and illegal makes me far right then so be it. If a bus driver pulled up at a bus stop and refused to let anyone on because his vehicle was full and in danger of crashing, would that make him 'far right'.
In this political climate, anyone who speaks out against the government full stop is deemed far right. It's absolutely pathetic.

Jeremy Corbyn, Zarah Sultana and John McDonnell have spoken against the Labour government. I've never known anybody call them far right.

Who are these mythical far right?