Is the U.K. really broken, or does it just need tinkering?

Shinamae

What successive governments have done to this once great country is truly appalling and I just despair….😭

What's been so appalling and why do you despair?

I still think the UK is a pretty good place to live and I'm very grateful I was born here.

What successive governments have done to this once great country is truly appalling and I just despair….😭

“I think we will have to find another model to accommodate a declining birthrate and the growth of AI. (I've no suggestions, BTW...)”

We may have a declining birth rate but a growing population so there is no problem, there will be plenty of workers to pay our pensions.

Lathyrus3

Id like some really radical changes in public ownership of essentials like water and energy. A commitment to public transport and social housing even if it means higher taxes.
And a couple of other things but that would do for a start.😬

I absolutely agree. And would also priorities forward looking policies for young families to prevent problems further down the line.

UK is not broken - it is still recovering from the every man for himself attitude of Thatcher so we have stopped pulling together and accepting that we need to pay in to receive. Hopefully we will see the light gradually.

Maremia

Are some folk advocating the 'trickle down effect'?
I know a good joke about that, but 99 per cent of you wouldn't get it.

😂👏

Are some folk advocating the 'trickle down effect'?
I know a good joke about that, but 99 per cent of you wouldn't get it.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

It’s business that runs the economy...

If it's business that runs the economy David then perhaps they should let someone else have a go because they're making a bloody mess of it...

David’s Its business that runs the economy I think he means businesses manufacture products, provide services, export and import goods along with employing millions of the population and paying various business taxes.

In my book that is not running the economy it is contributing to and providing employment to the economic system of the U.K.

Sorry I haven’t expressed myself very well.

Don't do yourself down! You're right. Businesses do enable money to keep circulating, but (as you say) they don't run the economy - that's the government's job.

I don't think GG13 is doing herself down, SMEs are a vital component of the economy. Big corporations? Hmm.. perhaps not so much...

TBH, I was making a somewhat sarcastic response to David...

I do think that overreliance on the neoliberal model of the economy, expecting 'markets' to create perfect economic conditions is ridiculous when we have so much evidence that a purely market led economy is neither rational nor in the interests of the wellbeing of the whole population.

I think we will have to find another model to accommodate a declining birthrate and the growth of AI. (I've no suggestions, BTW...)

And each PIP application needs to be addressed by in person interviews and recorded phone conversations.

Oreo

eazybee

Britain is not broken but it is behaving very, very foolishly.
It is not in a position to 'offer largesse to all who land here' as is shown by our rapidly spiralling debt, and the demands made on those who are working to support those who cannot, or will not, work.

Spot on.
Probably a thousand a day in this hot calm weather too.

Apparently, there are 1000 applications for PIP every day - and that doesn't depend on the weather.

eazybee, I read your comment with a bit of futuristic, distopian dread. Forgive me for 'misinterpreting' your words, but taken in a different context, and with the evolution of the 'right to die' campaign, just how soon will it be that we, yes, us here on Gransnet, people of a certain vintage, will be considered politically to be 'those who cannot or will not work'.

eazybee

Britain is not broken but it is behaving very, very foolishly.
It is not in a position to 'offer largesse to all who land here' as is shown by our rapidly spiralling debt, and the demands made on those who are working to support those who cannot, or will not, work.

Spot on.
Probably a thousand a day in this hot calm weather too.

Interest payments on a £3 trillion National Debt is a serious drain on tax revenue and market jitters can raise the costs by billions. Prudent management is required.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

It’s business that runs the economy...

If it's business that runs the economy David then perhaps they should let someone else have a go because they're making a bloody mess of it...

David’s Its business that runs the economy I think he means businesses manufacture products, provide services, export and import goods along with employing millions of the population and paying various business taxes.

In my book that is not running the economy it is contributing to and providing employment to the economic system of the U.K.

Sorry I haven’t expressed myself very well.

Don't do yourself down! You're right. Businesses do enable money to keep circulating, but (as you say) they don't run the economy - that's the government's job.

eazybee

That's why the country isn't offering largesse to everybody who just lands here. As ever, they're the scapegoats.
Most of those who cannot or will not work are born and bred in the UK. I'm not convinced they're at the root of the problems anyway.

I repeat, as a country we cannot afford a huge influx of people who will be dependent on the state, in the same way as we cannot afford the huge escalation of people claiming benefits, for whatever reason.
The burden falls on those who are working, particularly as after the fiasco of the Welfare Bill it seems inevitable that taxes will have to be raised.

Errrmmm ... meanwhile some people complain about the declining birthrate.

Well said keepingquiet.

It is in the media's interest to promote ideas about brokeness and chaos. No one wants to know when things are going well, so the media appeals to our baser instincts that revel in the downfall of others. You only need to read some of these posts for evidence of this.
People aren't interested in good news, that's the bottom line.
What saddens me about politics just now is that it is anti-politics.
What I mean by this is that not only are our political institutions under constant attack, but also the things that make our country such a great one; our tolerance of others, the stability of our institutions, our functioning democracy, our compassion for the disadvantaged, our common sense.
At least the Labour Party are trying to do something, unlike the previous ones who merely wanted to attack, as if getting rid of Europe, immigation, taxation, the NHS, were going to lead us into some halcyon sunlit uplands where we all behaved like proper Brits!
Come on, we are on the edge of another technological revolution which will impact on all our lives, and already is doing so.
Let's embrace the changes and innovations and stop this blaming of others all the time!
Yes, I get nostalgic but it is for the 1960s when as a child I felt we were all looking forward to a new kind of world- what happened to the future?

Magenta8

On the subject of remarks about MPs personal appearance, does anyone else remember David Cameron telling Jeremy Corbyn to "get a decent suit".

Little did Cameron know that waiting in the wings was Boris! A sartorial disaster if ever there was one.
One brilliant photo taken at a world summit showed the country's leaders in smart suits with a tag mentioning who the designer was.
When it came to Boris it said Benny Hill.

That's why the country isn't offering largesse to everybody who just lands here. As ever, they're the scapegoats.
Most of those who cannot or will not work are born and bred in the UK. I'm not convinced they're at the root of the problems anyway.

I repeat, as a country we cannot afford a huge influx of people who will be dependent on the state, in the same way as we cannot afford the huge escalation of people claiming benefits, for whatever reason.
The burden falls on those who are working, particularly as after the fiasco of the Welfare Bill it seems inevitable that taxes will have to be raised.

MaizieD

^It’s business that runs the economy...^

If it's business that runs the economy David then perhaps they should let someone else have a go because they're making a bloody mess of it...

David’s Its business that runs the economy I think he means businesses manufacture products, provide services, export and import goods along with employing millions of the population and paying various business taxes.

In my book that is not running the economy it is contributing to and providing employment to the economic system of the U.K.

Sorry I haven’t expressed myself very well.

Oreo

Ilovecheese

I agree MaizieD.

Me too.

Me too

To be honest, I welcome the fact that Britain is no longer top of the tree. If we could only get used to that idea, stop putting ourselves out there all the time and just concentrate more on fixing our own business, then I think the country would be a happier, more chilled place. ☺️

eazybee

Britain is not broken but it is behaving very, very foolishly.
It is not in a position to 'offer largesse to all who land here' as is shown by our rapidly spiralling debt, and the demands made on those who are working to support those who cannot, or will not, work.

That's why the country isn't offering largesse to everybody who just lands here. As ever, they're the scapegoats.

Most of those who cannot or will not work are born and bred in the UK. I'm not convinced they're at the root of the problems anyway.

Britain is not broken but it is behaving very, very foolishly.
It is not in a position to 'offer largesse to all who land here' as is shown by our rapidly spiralling debt, and the demands made on those who are working to support those who cannot, or will not, work.

I wouldn’t think Britain is ‘broken.’It is a rich first world country offering largesse to all who land there. A really broken country would not be in a position to do that, nowhere near. If you are looking for a ‘broken’ country look at some in Asia and the Middle East and probably North Korea though they are so secretive I’m not sure about that one.

No, I don't think the UK is broken. Just over a hundred years ago, the UK was at the top of the tree, but the world's dynamics have changed and other countries are catching up. A cursory study of history shows that's the way things are. All countries are in a permanent state of transition and there always tensions within and between countries.

British history has been characterised by evolution rather than revolution, with a couple of exceptions. Even the Civil War didn't result in a permanent republic and the country still has a royal family, despite is much diminished powers. The post-war Attlee government was in many respects revolutionary, but the catalyst for that was WW2 and I don't think many people want that.

There are also people (and always have been) whose agenda is to persuade others that the system is irretrievably broken and it's now "their" turn.