16 year olds to be given the right to vote…….yes or no?

I hear you PoliticsNerd and know those things to be true but wouldn't it be better to introduce an interest early on to normalise politics, not keeping it for "someone else" to worry about?
I had great hopes when Greta Thunberg took centre stage but alas her legacy seems to have largely evaporated.

Not to generalise in any way, but my grandchildren ( 15yrs and 13years) are very politically savvy. We have had many political debates in the family, who have a lot of different ideas and viewpoints. They do have discussions sessions in class, a local comprehensive, on politics and are very pointed in their views. Here in Wales we have Senedd Elections next year and as 16 year olds can vote it will be the first time my granddaughter can. It will be interesting to see the results, anyway, as Labour have been in power her since devolution but don't seem to be that popular these days.

Cossy

I’m on the fence, part of me thinks yes, as it’s their future, however as many adults way way over 16 don’t appear to understand our political system I do think some political education is needed in all schools.

Many 16 might “legally” be “children” but many are more mature, work part time and take life pretty seriously than some “adults”

Certainly don’t agree that’s it’s a desperate Labour ploy as there appear to be a good few Reform supporters in the 16-18 year olds.

Maybe that when 18 year olds were quizzed about Reform a lot of them seemed keen on it as they thought it was a radical left type of rebellious party.That was last year before the GE.😂

This year Reform is very big on TikTok and that’s where the younger people live.

Oreo

This year Reform is very big on TikTok and that’s where the younger people live.

We'll just have to live with that, won't we? It's their future world that they'd be voting for and a good many of us won't be around to see it. If they want to subscribe to populist nonsense then so be it. Plenty of their elders do the same, even supposedly mature, experienced and all knowing Gnetters...

Are you including yourself in that MaizieD? 😄
Of course we’ll have to live with it, especially if the dozy idea of giving 16 year olds kids the vote comes to pass.

This is an interesting article about the last election:

www.johnsmithcentre.com/news/research-are-young-women-and-young-men-in-the-uk-heading-in-different-political-directions/

"However, looking at 18–24-year-old women and men gives intriguing insights. Their Labour and Lib Dem share is similar. But that’s where the similarities stop. Young women were almost twice as likely to vote Green than young men. The reversal is true for Reform UK: young men were twice as likely to vote for Reform UK than young women. Equally, young men were more likely to vote Conservative than young women."

Oreo

Are you including yourself in that MaizieD? 😄
Of course we’ll have to live with it, especially if the dozy idea of giving 16 year olds kids the vote comes to pass.

Not particularly as I try not to post opinions on things I know nothing about, or at least to try to follow links or do a bit of research before commenting.

Oreo

This year Reform is very big on TikTok and that’s where the younger people live.

Are you sure that applies to both sexes Oreo? My granddaughters and their friends would tell you otherwise.

GrannyGravy13

The only thing that would maybe persuade me that this could be a viable option is if U.K. schools taught all pupils how government works, from Parish Councils right the way up to The House of Lords.

Until then, it’s a no, no and another no.

So did you do classes before you voted GrannyGravy13.

GG13
I took your comment to mean that you understand you woukd have been better qualified to vote, had you been given more information whilst at school.

PN your snide comment implies that you don’t think children would be better equipped to vote if they had more information.

Could we keep the discussion polite please Mollygo. I'm asking a genuine question.

The suggestion of classes just for these voters implies that they are "less than" other voters. It's exactly why I suggested more use of Citizen's Juries earlier in the thread. They allow those who want to understand in greater depth to do so - whatever their age.

There will be those in every age group that want to learn and those in every age group who think only their opinion matters whether it's based on fact, fiction or no knowledge at all. Each type of voter has always been there - age makes no difference whatsoever, other than each age group having its own particular bias.

🤔

MaizieD

Oreo

Are you including yourself in that MaizieD? 😄
Of course we’ll have to live with it, especially if the dozy idea of giving 16 year olds kids the vote comes to pass.

Not particularly as I try not to post opinions on things I know nothing about, or at least to try to follow links or do a bit of research before commenting.

Funnily enough I thought that’s what you would say😂it’s only
other GNetters who subscribe to populist nonsense then.

Mamie

Oreo

This year Reform is very big on TikTok and that’s where the younger people live.

Are you sure that applies to both sexes Oreo? My granddaughters and their friends would tell you otherwise.

Yes of course it applies to both sexes, they all love TikTok.

PoliticsNerd

GrannyGravy13

The only thing that would maybe persuade me that this could be a viable option is if U.K. schools taught all pupils how government works, from Parish Councils right the way up to The House of Lords.

Until then, it’s a no, no and another no.

So did you do classes before you voted GrannyGravy13.

What has that got to do with it?
GrannyGravy13 is, like most on here an older woman with a lifetime of experience in observing life and political parties.
16 year olds know very little of either.

I think that 18 is too young come to that, particularly as younger people are more immature than they were years ago.

Keeping things polite PN?
I found your comment to GG13 at 20.43 decidedly rude.

Oreo

I think that 18 is too young come to that, particularly as younger people are more immature than they were years ago.

It’s unreasonable to say younger people are more immature these days. Throughout history, young people have consistently adapted and matured to meet the evolving norms of their times. In contrast, older generations tend to find it more challenging to keep pace with these changes. It's a natural part of societal evolution, where each generation plays a role in shaping and responding to new expectations.

We don't cast out the old from democracy, why is it right to treat young people this way?

Nope, 18 year olds are definitely more immature than they used to be.
Mollycoddled they expect rights without responsibilities.
They live online and spend half their lives gaming.Years ago they would have been out at work for a few years already.

Oreo

Nope, 18 year olds are definitely more immature than they used to be.
Mollycoddled they expect rights without responsibilities.
They live online and spend half their lives gaming.Years ago they would have been out at work for a few years already.

I do understand where you're coming from, but I think it's important to consider that each generation faces different challenges and opportunities as we enter the various economic and industrial transitions.

Today's young people grow up in a digital world that didn't exist before. This can influence their behaviors and social interactions in new ways. While some may be more engaged online or prioritise different activities, that doesn't necessarily mean they are inherently more immature.

I don't know which young people you mix with but I rarely come any behaviours across the ones you describe. Yes, they live a different life to ours but so did we to our parents.

All my adult grandchildren are doing jobs that didnt exist when I was their age. I don't doubt that some of today's 16 year olds will be doing jobs that don't yet exist. But maturity isn't solely defined by work experience - it's also reflected in adaptability, awareness, and empathy, qualities that it's very likely the same proportion, if not more so, of young people have today as generations of young people have had in the past.

Oreo
The problem is with blanket labelling all young people, the way some people blanket all older people. So let’s say some or even many in which case, what you say is true.

There are indeed young people who have a good work ethic, and who haven’t been mollycoddled.

Unfortunately, there are an increasing number who as you say, expect rights without responsibilities, who spend their time online or playing video games or hanging about looking for easy ways to get rich, which don’t involve work.

That there have always been young people like that, is also true, but IMO they were more interested in the no responsibilities than being given benefits, (which weren’t available) and now rights, for free.

Does KS thinks he is buying votes by giving the vote to 16 year olds? We don’t know.
Nor will the impact be available until the next election.

If it’s no different from what happened in Wales-where many, like those older than the 16-24 group didn’t bother either to vote or even to register, then it will be a wasted effort.

Scotland’s SNP fared better, and they advocated lowering the age limit in the UK, so it’s good to have accepted their suggestion.

It’s now a done deal.

However, those claiming that if they are responsible enough to have the vote, which will affect their lives as well as others, they should also accept greater responsibility e.g. for crimes they commit and not hide behind the “They’re too young to be named” that currently exists, they have a good point.

I’d like to know why not?

Aspects like drinking, driving, getting married, joining the armed forces?
Why not?
Those are all things which affect their lives and the lives of others.

Is it reasonable to say, “No, you’re only mature enough to vote.”

On GN posters say that the 16-17 year olds in their families or that they know, are mature, interested or well versed in politics etc.
Would they also give the other rights and responsibilities mentioned those young people and obviously, to all 16-17 year olds, even those who are immature and mollycoddled as some definitely are?

The usual ^well lots of over 16-17 year olds . . . .
which is usually dragged in to justify a point is not what’s in question here. The question is about 16-17 year olds.

Oreo

Mamie

Oreo

This year Reform is very big on TikTok and that’s where the younger people live.

Are you sure that applies to both sexes Oreo? My granddaughters and their friends would tell you otherwise.

Yes of course it applies to both sexes, they all love TikTok.

I was referring to the bit where you said "Reform is very big on TikTok". Of course both sexes are on TikTok, but most definitely not all Reform supporters. As the data I posted from the last election shows, young women are far less likely to support them. My granddaughters and their friends would agree with that view.

For those concerned about political education in schools, this is from the National Curriculum. The formatting has gone a bit awry, but I think it should be perfectly clear that this is a statutory requirement for all secondary schools.

Citizenship programmes of study:
key stages 3 and 4

National curriculum in England
Purpose of study

A high-quality citizenship education helps to provide pupils with knowledge, skills and understanding to prepare them to play a full and active part in society. In particular, citizenship education should foster pupils’ keen awareness and understanding of democracy, government and how laws are made and upheld.
Teaching should equip pupils with the skills and knowledge to explore political and social issues critically, to weigh
evidence, debate and make reasoned arguments. It should also prepare pupils to take their place in society as responsible citizens, manage their money well and make sound
financial decisions.

Aims
The national curriculum for citizenship aims to ensure that all pupils acquire a sound knowledge and understanding of how the United Kingdom is governed, its political system and how citizens participate actively in its democratic
systems of government
 develop a sound knowledge and understanding of the role of law and the justice system in our society and how laws are shaped and enforced
 develop an interest in, and commitment to, participation in volunteering as well as otherforms of responsible activity, that they will take with them into adulthood
 are equipped with the skills to think critically and debate political questions, to enable them to manage their money on a day-to-day basis, and plan for future financial needs.

Starmer really isn't with it ! After announcing this absolutely insane idea he stated that many youngsters of this age were working and paying tax. My understanding is that the majority are in education until the age of 18. In any case they most likely would not be earing enough to pay tax. NO NO NO