Dianne Abbot - did she want to be suspended, again .

I've met and worked with people from all religions and non-religions. The same with people who born as men and later became women. No problems. I do admit though that I found it difficult to approach a lady dressed in black from head to food with only a slit near her eyes. The one lady in question had to have assistance from a male child as she could not see as the "net" covering her eyes was so thick that it obscured her vision. I've seen transgender women who could not ever be accepted as women but continued to dress in a female form.
We've shared a hotel with Jewish people who were very rude and ignored anyone not of their faith. They even ate outside in the kitchen garden where the hotelier had to provide seats. Still their behaviour did not raise my emotions. The violence in Gaza is very different.
The trouble with Israel is that it attacks unarmed civilians. I have to remember that hate breeds hate and I must not feel that way .

Ilovecheese

I know that Diane Abbott is not very popular on Gransnet, but that doesn't justify misrepresenting what she actually said.

I apologised for my haste and posted detail of what DA said

Sorry growstuff I just read your post properly and we agree it was colour not being Muslim.

Another thing is I've read the Ethiopian Jews suffer discrimination in Israel. I don't know if it is true.

I did go to school with some Jewish girls. One was pale, freckled and ginger like me. If anything we both looked Irish which was accurate with me.

Growstuff isn't that more to do with his skin colour? I have Muslim converts in my family and they don't get any racist abuse.

MayBee70

Casdon

To be honest I’m weary of her. She fits better with the Corbyn party, I just wish she had shown some bottle and resigned to join them.

I think she just wants to bring down the current government. One of the reasons why people didn’t vote for Corbyn was that they knew she would be in his cabinet. She has been a great revolutionary politician in her time and I presume is a good constituency MP but she should now use her position of mother of the house far more wisely. Imo

I think she should have retired at the last election, because she is now ruining the memory of her own legacy, it’s actually sad to watch her. I don’t think she has anything to offer Jeremy Corbyn’s party either really now. Knowing when to bow out is an art she doesn’t possess.

Quote kjmpde Fri 18-Jul-25 17:07:59
I have never really hated anybody due to their religion, colour or gender BUT I started to feel genuine dislike of 2 strangers who were obviously Jewish and that they were Israeli's. They had done nothing wrong but the link to the murdering government in Israel was made in my mind. How can you bomb children trying to get water ? I had to be more logical but it is amazing how a negative experience affects your view of a whole group of people.
Diane Abbott is old enough to have had racists comments made to her and no doubt sexist views too.

Good grief , what if you met Muslims

Casdon

To be honest I’m weary of her. She fits better with the Corbyn party, I just wish she had shown some bottle and resigned to join them.

I think she just wants to bring down the current government. One of the reasons why people didn’t vote for Corbyn was that they knew she would be in his cabinet. She has been a great revolutionary politician in her time and I presume is a good constituency MP but she should now use her position of mother of the house far more wisely. Imo

I have never really hated anybody due to their religion, colour or gender BUT I started to feel genuine dislike of 2 strangers who were obviously Jewish and that they were Israeli's. They had done nothing wrong but the link to the murdering government in Israel was made in my mind. How can you bomb children trying to get water ? I had to be more logical but it is amazing how a negative experience affects your view of a whole group of people.
Diane Abbott is old enough to have had racists comments made to her and no doubt sexist views too.

theworriedwell

Anniebach

Thank you Iam, she claims what she said last year was right even though last year she apologised for it.

Quote Granmarderby10 Fri 18-Jul-25 14:35:41
I instantly know whether someone is black. I don’t instantly know if someone is a Jew on appearance.

Last year a police officer officer in the Met described a man as
Openly Jewish !

Isn't the openly Jewish about clothing? Bit like Muslims, both can wear clothes that identify them or not. I could convert to either, wear certain clothes that identify me, I can't just suddenly change colour.

The opposite is also true. My son-in-law comes from an Arab family. His parents are still weakly Muslim, but my son-in-law is an atheist. he was born and brought up in the UK and has a slightly Mancunian accent. He still occasionally gets racial and anti-Islam abuse based on the colour of his skin.

Anniebach

Thank you Iam, she claims what she said last year was right even though last year she apologised for it.

Quote Granmarderby10 Fri 18-Jul-25 14:35:41
I instantly know whether someone is black. I don’t instantly know if someone is a Jew on appearance.

Last year a police officer officer in the Met described a man as
Openly Jewish !

Isn't the openly Jewish about clothing? Bit like Muslims, both can wear clothes that identify them or not. I could convert to either, wear certain clothes that identify me, I can't just suddenly change colour.

I am not a fan of Diane Abbot but I think she had a point.

Of course, any sort of prejudice is wrong but people with dark skin cannot disguise the fact and so are much easier to target.

The other groups mentioned also experience prejudice but they are not necessarily so obvious as to be accosted in the street or be the victims of violence.

I have a lot of sympathy for the Labour Party at the moment because they are getting the flack for 14 years of corrosive Conservative policies and actions. However, when Kier Starmer starts alluding to the UK as a potential "island of strangers" then I can't see how he can take the high ground with regard to issues regarding racism.

I know that Diane Abbott is not very popular on Gransnet, but that doesn't justify misrepresenting what she actually said.

Iam64

I agree with your taxi driver FGT.
Abbott wanted to provoke the front bench, especially Starmer. I’d have some respect for her if she’d criticised the Labour Party she was elected to serve, then gone to join this brave new Corbyn type party.

As for her comments about Jewish people not being instantly seen as Jewish in the way black /people of colour are, that’s another rather ludicrous. Comment. I’ve not heard of schools or Churches that serve a predominantly black community needing guards at their doors. Here in north Manchester they do.

Jews have been subjected to prejudice, racism, pogroms, been driven from the places they called home and then, the holocaust. I’m not denying or minimising the legacy of the slave trade but let’s not play who had it worse.

Travellers again. Easily identified if yiu know anything about that community.

I agree Iam.

Lots of traveller communities in my area and they are easily identifiable. Sadly, they do experience racism.

I think Abbot is showing her own narrow mindedness and lack of awareness of others’ lived experiences.

I wish she would leave the Labour Party and join Corbyn et al (if that ever comes to fruition). She clearly despises KS and the current LP - she’s a better fit with Corbyn.

In my lifetime in my hometown I have witnessed and heard many times racist slurs and opinions against black people from school aged up to elderly (from a different time/knew no better etc etc).
It is less so now but some die hards are just more “careful” you know how it goes: the “I’m not racist but…” brigade or “I know/knew of 2 black people at work/school once”

I never heard any against Jews and didn’t know of any Jews. don’t even now - I don’t think🤔

I don’t know anything about travelling communities either, except they travel and often cause outrage because of the mess some of them have left behind them when they move on.
Individuals of that community? I know none.

I know my mum and along with others in her age group would say things about people with red hair, even her own grandchildren but also about being left handed it was as if it was an affliction to be cured. We kids knew it was a load of cobblers then.

growstuff Fri 18-Jul-25 16:08:24
Iam64
growstuff, the provoking people but hadn’t hit my radar. My immediate thought was how provocative he might have found the Pro Palestinian chants.
It must be so difficult to police without provoking one ‘side’ or the other

Maybe he did, but he didn't need to take that route, which wasn't the direct one from the synagogue to his home. What the police officer said was stupid, but I think said in the man's best interest. The police didn't know how people in the crowd would respond to seeing somebody wearing a kippah and were taking preventative action. The man immediately contacted a number of media outlets - the ones he knew would make a political point of it. I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy with him.

He should have walked a direct route? Is there a route reserved
for Jews only ?

For me it isn’t about that individual. One of my teams had people of all faiths and creeds. Our three Jewish team members were as easily identifiable as the rest of our colourful/white gang

growstuff

Iam64 I'm not disputing what you have written about Jewish schools and synagogues and agree that it's an appalling situation. Nevertheless, I also take Abbott's point. I know Jewish people who couldn't be identified in a crowd. They look like and dress like average people and don't discuss their religion very often. It is different if you have dark skin because you can't wash the colour off. You will always stand out in a crowd of predominantly white people.

Absolutely.

Iam64

growstuff, the provoking people but hadn’t hit my radar. My immediate thought was how provocative he might have found the Pro Palestinian chants.
It must be so difficult to police without provoking one ‘side’ or the other

Maybe he did, but he didn't need to take that route, which wasn't the direct one from the synagogue to his home. What the police officer said was stupid, but I think said in the man's best interest. The police didn't know how people in the crowd would respond to seeing somebody wearing a kippah and were taking preventative action. The man immediately contacted a number of media outlets - the ones he knew would make a political point of it. I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy with him.

Iam64 I'm not disputing what you have written about Jewish schools and synagogues and agree that it's an appalling situation. Nevertheless, I also take Abbott's point. I know Jewish people who couldn't be identified in a crowd. They look like and dress like average people and don't discuss their religion very often. It is different if you have dark skin because you can't wash the colour off. You will always stand out in a crowd of predominantly white people.

growstuff, the provoking people but hadn’t hit my radar. My immediate thought was how provocative he might have found the Pro Palestinian chants.
It must be so difficult to police without provoking one ‘side’ or the other

Granmarderby10

Anniebach

Thank you Iam, she claims what she said last year was right even though last year she apologised for it.

Quote Granmarderby10 Fri 18-Jul-25 14:35:41
I instantly know whether someone is black. I don’t instantly know if someone is a Jew on appearance.

Last year a police officer officer in the Met described a man as
Openly Jewish !

Yes I do recall that. And that was ridiculous too. Was the offending Jew wearing orthodox attire?
He was at or near a protest and the police view was that he was provoking the “other side” just by being there. Police said words to the effect that they were saving him from himself. It was almost laughable.
See the difference?

Yes, he was wearing a kippah, which was why the police thought he would be identified as Jewish. I personally think what the police officer said was ridiculous, but it did turn out that this man had a history of provoking people.

I agree with your taxi driver FGT.
Abbott wanted to provoke the front bench, especially Starmer. I’d have some respect for her if she’d criticised the Labour Party she was elected to serve, then gone to join this brave new Corbyn type party.

As for her comments about Jewish people not being instantly seen as Jewish in the way black /people of colour are, that’s another rather ludicrous. Comment. I’ve not heard of schools or Churches that serve a predominantly black community needing guards at their doors. Here in north Manchester they do.

Jews have been subjected to prejudice, racism, pogroms, been driven from the places they called home and then, the holocaust. I’m not denying or minimising the legacy of the slave trade but let’s not play who had it worse.

Travellers again. Easily identified if yiu know anything about that community.

I do think Jewish people are subjected to hatred and persecution in a comparable degree to black people.

Although it could be argued that there race is not always as immediately apparent so that they don’t suffer the same immediate discrimination that appearance might provoke.

But nobody could deny the intensity of hatred that Jews experience or the extremes of intent - such as complete extermination of the whole race.

Granmarderby
Yes I do recall that. And that was ridiculous too. Was the offending Jew wearing orthodox attire?
He was at or near a protest and the police view was that he was

Yes I do recall that. And that was ridiculous too. Was the offending Jew wearing orthodox attire?
He was at or near a protest and the police view was that he was provoking the “other side” just by being there. Police said words to the effect that they were saving him from himself. It was almost laughable.
See the difference?

He Was leaving a Synagogue, seems he should have waited until after dark

Anniebach

Thank you Iam, she claims what she said last year was right even though last year she apologised for it.

Quote Granmarderby10 Fri 18-Jul-25 14:35:41
I instantly know whether someone is black. I don’t instantly know if someone is a Jew on appearance.

Last year a police officer officer in the Met described a man as
Openly Jewish !

Yes I do recall that. And that was ridiculous too. Was the offending Jew wearing orthodox attire?
He was at or near a protest and the police view was that he was provoking the “other side” just by being there. Police said words to the effect that they were saving him from himself. It was almost laughable.
See the difference?