200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists

ID is very good thing but my fear of having all this information on one card & having to carry it round & loosing it.
My mum is always loosing her bus pass, so if it’s a card like that, could all that be cloned.
Can I’d information not just go on a mobile? Be much simpler & free perhaps!

Ockenden report?

Do you have any evidence as to it being 'all of the above'?

Reports? Results of inquiries?

£37 billion looks like an awful lot of failings, I'd have thought there would be some conclusions as to the causes available somewhere.

It’s all of the above MaizieD and a reluctance to perform C sections until it’s a real emergency. Also poor communication is mentioned by AI.

Primrose53

ronib

£200 million pales into insignificance with the £37 billion the NHS has paid out in compensation and legal costs in maternity cases since 2019. How many black holes are there in the NHS? (Guardian report today).

That’s shocking. If maternity staff and doctors did their jobs properly in the first place parents would not have to claim these vast sums of compensation for losing babies or delivering very disabled babies. These huge sums cover the future life of a damaged baby and all the care needed.

Surely the real question is, why weren't the staff and doctors doing their jobs properly?

Was it lack of training, lack of funds to staff units properly, incompetence, poor management...? The causes could be many and vary from incident to incident.

ronib

£200 million pales into insignificance with the £37 billion the NHS has paid out in compensation and legal costs in maternity cases since 2019. How many black holes are there in the NHS? (Guardian report today).

That’s shocking. If maternity staff and doctors did their jobs properly in the first place parents would not have to claim these vast sums of compensation for losing babies or delivering very disabled babies. These huge sums cover the future life of a damaged baby and all the care needed.

The Badenoch case was passport tourism in my opinion.

ronib

£200 million pales into insignificance with the £37 billion the NHS has paid out in compensation and legal costs in maternity cases since 2019. How many black holes are there in the NHS? (Guardian report today).

Quite right of the Guardian to report it.

I wonder if work is already being done though. It does seem to be this government's way to get on with things and then report. Old fashioned, perhaps but it does take some power out of the shock press who often seem to think they run the country! The press is important, just not quite in the way some think they are.

escaped

It doesn't help when UK NHS hospitals' wording is so woolly.

When you arrive at * Hospital, you may be asked to complete a form and provide us with documents to prove that you are ordinarily resident in the UK.
...... if we can be bothered!

That doesn't say "can't be bothered" to me. I says circumstances may vary. After all it's quite likely they already have information on you.

£200 million pales into insignificance with the £37 billion the NHS has paid out in compensation and legal costs in maternity cases since 2019. How many black holes are there in the NHS? (Guardian report today).

escaped

I think the carte d'identité is free in France. Mamie? You only pay if you lose it and need a replacement.

There was a short period when NHS cards were issued - I would guess in the early 2000s, but I'm not sure. I had one and I'm sure I didn't pay for it. They eventually withdrew the scheme, I would guess that doing it as you suggest the French do escaped, would be acceptable to the majority.

As time has passed and people have got used to using cards for many things, scepticism about ID cards has subsided although their is still some opposition to them.

It doesn't help when UK NHS hospitals' wording is so woolly.

When you arrive at * Hospital, you may be asked to complete a form and provide us with documents to prove that you are ordinarily resident in the UK.
...... if we can be bothered!

This is yet another reason why we need identity cards. When is any government going to have the guts to introduce them?

Just to add, we were staying at BiL’s place in France when a fellow guest was taken ill in the night. He was taken to hospital in Dijon soon afterwards, where we visited him the next morning. He was unconscious and the first thing the senior nurse asked me was whether he had insurance. Which he did - I had waited with him until the ‘pompiers’ arrived and he’d indicated where his paperwork was.

escaped

I think the carte d'identité is free in France. Mamie? You only pay if you lose it and need a replacement.

Yes absolutely. Our permanent residence cards are also free. Identity cards are renewable locally. That is also the case in Spain. My grandchildren have identity cards, but needed passports to go to England. They were produced at the Town Hall in 30 minutes.

I think the carte d'identité is free in France. Mamie? You only pay if you lose it and need a replacement.

I assume we have a reciprocal arrangement with Australia nanna.

About 10 years ago I was in the UK and had to go to emergency at the local hospital. They knew I was Australian but said there were too many forms to fill out so they just put me down as a local. Fair enough and very nice of them.

Oh I give up 🤦‍♀️ my point is I pay for enough ID, on top of all my other out goings, I don’t want to have pay for even more! If the government wants us to have ID, are they going to foot the bill? If they do, then I don’t object, it will just be locked away with my other forms of ID.

Good point Growstuff.

I'm afraid my liking for ID cards connected to NHS may be entirely selfish. I would like someone, should I one day be found in a collapsed heap or wandering, to be able to treat me and let loved ones know. I'm sure they would have additionally uses though.

Mt61

My point is I have more than enough ID, I will only carry ID if I am picking up a parcel. I won’t carry all that info on me as a regular thing, as I wouldn’t want to loose it, or for to fall into the wrong hands. I don’t think I need any more ID.
Most people in the uk have some form of ID, those that don’t, well I think that’s rather up to them to enquire about getting some.

The issue is that eligibility for NHS care is based on being ordinarily resident, not nationality. People can have a British passport without living in the UK.

My point is I have more than enough ID, I will only carry ID if I am picking up a parcel. I won’t carry all that info on me as a regular thing, as I wouldn’t want to loose it, or for to fall into the wrong hands. I don’t think I need any more ID.
Most people in the uk have some form of ID, those that don’t, well I think that’s rather up to them to enquire about getting some.

Mt61
Hang on a minute why should we have ID cards, I’ve paid for a passport & I’ve paid for a drivers license, I have also other photo id.
Because a lot of people think like you, illegals like the UK. Easy to find work etc.

Mt61

Hang on a minute why should we have ID cards, I’ve paid for a passport & I’ve paid for a drivers license, I have also other photo id. Who would pay for these cards?
Why can’t they process these irregular people, take their photos & fingerprints, give them some sort of ID!

There are lots of issues with that proposal
Not everybody who is a UK citizen has a passport
Passports don’t contain an NHS number or your home address, and are not amended if you move house in the 10 year issue period - I presume ID cards are linked?
Passports don’t contain a fingerprint
How would you know who was ‘irregular’ if they said they didn’t have a passport

the hospitals I've worked in do charge foreign nationals, as in the instance of the Nigerian mother of triplets (I think I'd have been tempted to say, hop along to cash office & get the bill settled, then we can discharge the babies!).
I think most of them pay, the issue making it difficult is that for most things you don't know what the bill will be until treatment's finished so you can't bill until discharge so the opportunities to abscond are there to be taken & recovery is difficult once they're abroad.
I believe there are, or were, maternity health tourists & scams that set them up with NHS numbers and a local address in order to claim free care. I have no evidence for this but it was believed to be happening - midwives go out to the address to check out mum & baby only to be told "Oh they don't live here they've gone back to ---".It's more difficult to stop in places like London where people move around more & it's quite usual for someone to present for antenatal care late in pregnancy having just moved to the area.
We don't have a good reputation for maternity in england at the moment so maybe this will encourage scammers to prefer another country to scam.

Hang on a minute why should we have ID cards, I’ve paid for a passport & I’ve paid for a drivers license, I have also other photo id. Who would pay for these cards?
Why can’t they process these irregular people, take their photos & fingerprints, give them some sort of ID!