200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists

Reference has been made to research into the causes of diseases.
I understand that a significant percentage of research budgets is from charity donations, and also research is undertaken by pharmaceutical companies at their own expense.
Any such company must surely be highly motivated to find some drug which will halt or slow the progress of dementia. It would reap huge financial rewards for them.
Any NHS budget for research is just a part of the story.

If you include fingerprints on an ID card, they are very hard to forge.
Our French medical cards do not have them, but it would still be very hard to forge all the data required. We have recently been allowed to have them on our phones as well as the original green plastic cards. They are used by all hospitals, doctors, physiotherapists, pharmacists.etc.

Casdon

ID cards which link to your NHS number would be ideal. However, I’d be waiting for the new Gransnet thread
‘200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists with forged ID cards’

Absolutely Casdon. I think the idea of an NHS link is what gives me the feeling of inevitability.

“£200 million is a small black hole in the scheme of things”

It is possibly just the tip of the iceberg and in any case it should not be ignored. I was always taught to take care of the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves.
My daughter had her baby in a central London hospital and there were so many women from other countries in the maternity ward with a few needing interpreters, another cost to the NHS

It will be unpleasant, masieD, when the national health falls completely, there will be no treatment for you or anyone else for that matter😩

Casdon

ID cards which link to your NHS number would be ideal. However, I’d be waiting for the new Gransnet thread
‘200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists with forged ID cards’

Crossed Post 👍

Yes to identity cards.
And maybe to a sort of NHS card, then alarm bells would ring if say a person, not in the system, rocked up at 36 weeks plus to deliver a baby.

ID cards which link to your NHS number would be ideal. However, I’d be waiting for the new Gransnet thread
‘200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists with forged ID cards’

mokryna

Allira Would people from overseas be treated for long-term conditions or just in dire emergencies, bearing in mind how difficult it is to get a GP appointment here or the fact that the wait in A&E can be many hours?
My NHS DD told me once that they had to telephone the daughter, in a country outside the EU, that the NHS was discharging her mother, after being treated for a slight street accident but to be aware of her mother’s cancer, which they couldn’t treat.
It was thought that the ‘accident’ was a means to get treated.

Interesting mokryna

I’m inclining more and more to having ID cards here.

escaped

I've just had my passport checked, scanned, and plonked with a stamp, along with being asked what I've been doing abroad. I'm trying to think of a way the NHS could tap into this system which would then show date of arrival, nationality etc.
Just giving the NHS hospital a random UK is open to abuse. Anyone could say, 36, Oxford Gardens, Stafford, ST16 3JB - I've just plucked that example from millions of available addresses.

Would (or wouldn't) it be better to go to an identity card system. I know there are some negatives but I wonder if it doesn't become inevitable, escaped.

Does anyone know which of the Nordic countries which have strong state services, do or don't use them?

Allira Would people from overseas be treated for long-term conditions or just in dire emergencies, bearing in mind how difficult it is to get a GP appointment here or the fact that the wait in A&E can be many hours?
My NHS DD told me once that they had to telephone the daughter, in a country outside the EU, that the NHS was discharging her mother, after being treated for a slight street accident but to be aware of her mother’s cancer, which they couldn’t treat.
It was thought that the ‘accident’ was a means to get treated.

I mean in terms of chasing up the person for payment.

I've just had my passport checked, scanned, and plonked with a stamp, along with being asked what I've been doing abroad. I'm trying to think of a way the NHS could tap into this system which would then show date of arrival, nationality etc.
Just giving the NHS hospital a random UK is open to abuse. Anyone could say, 36, Oxford Gardens, Stafford, ST16 3JB - I've just plucked that example from millions of available addresses.

Thanks for the information Pippa000

Freya5

MaizieD

What an unpleasant thread.

Why is that. When I was Nursing we had a special depth that collated all details from overseas users of our health service. A consultant regularly brought his mother over from Eygypt for care, but made sure the costs were met. Unlike other countries that get a bill, then refuse to pay. Hence the large amount owing. I do not think this is right, emergency care not withstanding, 9nwrd care needs to be addressed. As in any other country apart from ours. All travellers should have to take out insurance before they are allowed to fly to another country,unless reciprocal care,such as we have with Australia. Can afford a flight, can afford insurance. Wouldn't you say ??

We always take out travel insurance when going to Australia.
Even if there is a reciprocal arrangement, it is for emergencies only and might be needed for ongoing treatment afterwards or in case anything happens en route, as it did with two people we know.

MaizieD

What an unpleasant thread.

Why is that. When I was Nursing we had a special depth that collated all details from overseas users of our health service. A consultant regularly brought his mother over from Eygypt for care, but made sure the costs were met. Unlike other countries that get a bill, then refuse to pay. Hence the large amount owing. I do not think this is right, emergency care not withstanding, 9nwrd care needs to be addressed. As in any other country apart from ours. All travellers should have to take out insurance before they are allowed to fly to another country,unless reciprocal care,such as we have with Australia. Can afford a flight, can afford insurance. Wouldn't you say ??

From experience many years ago a close relative left this country, contempt for all it stood for, yet returned about 20 years ago with a terminal illness to be treated on the NHS. It was a very expensive illness, I remember injections costing 80K ,isolation rooms with tv and etc. visiting at clinics I met whole families who came from abroad being treated for free. I know because they said well they have a relatives address on their notes. These were major London hospitals. My relative was a charmer,several partners and doctors and nurses all thought my relative wonderful. My knowledge went on for several years. It may have all changed now. The only payment the NHS got was when I offered to be tested to see if I were suitable donor and had to stay overnight in a hospital accommodation which I paid.

Oreo

Casdon

I feel like a loop system is developing here. To repeat, again, the NHS does recoup money for treatment to overseas visitors. The system is not perfect, to make it so would require armies of administration staff which would cost more than the amount lost to replicate in every hospital. Successive governments have wrestled with this issue. Why on earth do you not check the facts?

Other hospitals seem to manage it in other countries.I would be very surprised if Germany and the Netherlands and the Scandi countries don’t get things right.They appear to have enough admin jobs to cover it.

Yes, so why can’t we? Why do we just throw in the towel and not bother doing anything? There are so many areas of the NHS where conditions are very poor due to lack of funding yet we throw millions away on people from overseas.

Overseas hospitals usually have a finance system and office set up to collect payments from patients. I know this from experience of assessing hospitals in a couple of European Hospitals and living abroad. In the case of a resident on attendance your ID number is entered on a database, with your address etc, if you are a foreign national your EHIC or GHIC details ( if appropriate) are documented. Any extra costs over and above the amount that can be claimed from the country the patients comes from must be either paid on discharge or claimed from private insurance. Where the patients has no such arrangements costs of care is discussed with the patient or relative where appropriate and treatment where an emergency is basic. An Invoice is again given on discharge and payment in full expected.

That was to 4allweknow

PamelaJ1

I think because we run our health service on a free to user basis there isn’t really any provision for charging those who are not entitled to use it.
I did watch a television programme about how hard it is for hospitals to get the unentitled to pay up. I’m not sure it was the same programme that Primrose alluded to because I’m sure it was more than 5 years ago but I may be wrong.
I spend quite a bit of time in Australia, visiting my DD,however although we have a reciprocal arrangement with them, I always have travel insurance. I may be taken ill in the airport in HK for instance whilst changing planes or having a stopover.
If you can afford to fly then you should be able to afford the insurance. It should be mandatory. Without it entrance to the country should be denied.

If you want to leave the airport in Singapore, HK, etc., even for a few hours, there is an additional charge on the travel insurance. If you are just in transit, I was told it's fine.

And if Farage had his way, that’s what it would be like here - for all of us!

It would be inhumane to refuse treatment to people who become ill if they are visiting, and I don't think anyone has suggested that. To travel to have expensive treatment, and then go home, is just not fair to the taxpayers here. I heard an American on the radio a few years ago; he had a heart attack while visiting, received what was in his view 'world class' treatment, offered to pay, and was told there was no mechanism to take his money. This is ridiculous when we are told the NHS is on its knees. Is it really impossible to expect those who have contributed nothing to pay for their care, and to be able to take payments from those who are willing?

Whitewavemark2 Try going to A & E department in USA hospital. You don't get past reception until you've provided credit card details.