200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists

We do!! I’ve watched the forms being filled in - A&E

It’s people who come from other countries knowing full well they have a heart condition, are heavily pregnant or something else very serious. They get themselves to an NHS hospital and get operated on. I am not talking about people who have an accident on arriving here although some countries charge for that too.

It’s not nasty or mean spirited to expect people to pay for their treatment here. As I said, other countries charge for it.

A neighbour’s mother went to canada to visit relatives and they insisted on seeing her medical insurance documents before they would treat her for gallstones. Likewise a man I know took ill in Mexico and the same thing happened there, he was charged for the ambulance too.

I watched a programme where a woman from Portugal came here supposedly on holiday but she admitted it was really do she could have heart surgery. There was a man from Egypt who had a similar story. Both claimed they couldn’t afford it in their home countries but knew they would be treated here.

I guess the issue is, it's those who come to the UK on purpose to use the NHS for free and then go home. Not those who have a mishap here or fall seriously sick. It's those who set out to take advantage of the NHS because its free, and then leave our system drained.

I'm currently sitting on a 6 hour ferry homeward bound after 2 months abroad. In my purse I have a UK GHIC, a French carte vitale from when I worked there and paid contributions, and my travel insurance information. I cover all eventualities, as why should a foreign country have to pay the bill for my treatment?

I have accompanied several people to A & E abroad, and believe me, you don't get past the triage receptionist without filling out reams of paperwork and presenting your documents.
I wonder why we can't be bothered to do that in the UK.

keepingquiet

I know this is also ex-pats who come back, give their previous home address or the address of a relative, and get their treatment, then go back to wherever they are now.

Except for the ones who have UK state pensions, hold S1 forms and are fully entitled to use the NHS.

Kandinsky

What sort of healthcare system does the rest of Europe have?
Genuine question. I mean, people get very worked up about scrapping the NHS but other countries manage - are the French & Germans any less healthy than us?

They all have some sort of universal socialised health service - I looked at it once for GN - looked at every country, all different but no one is left without healthcare.

I certainly agree that anyone who needs treatment whilst in our country - on an emergency basis (not a planned basis!) - should receive it. But they must pay for it if they aren't a resident of a Western country we have a reciprocal arrangement with.

This has been going on for decades - ie that we've just been used for this. I recall back in the 1980's that a lodger of mine (from a country we did not have such an arrangement with) had an accident and I could see she had cut her hand so badly that she was going to need stitches. So I walked her up to the local A & E Department, told the receptionist what the issue was and requested treatment for her - BUT I made sure to tell that receptionist which country she was from (ie Venezuela). It couldnt have been made clearer to them that, after she'd been treated, she should be given a bill for it - but they didn't give her one. Goodness knows that the only way she could have evaded such a bill would have been to move out from my house - as I was quite happy to provide the relevant address for her.

Nobody expects someone who is here anyway - rather than coming here deliberately just to use us - would be refused treatment. But they must pay personally - if their government doesnt have that reciprocal arrangement with us.

I do get very annoyed at people who come out with a "should have colonial guilt" trip playing on us - when 99.9% of us have nothing to do with what some other peoples ancestors (but not ours personally) did.

What sort of healthcare system does the rest of Europe have?
Genuine question. I mean, people get very worked up about scrapping the NHS but other countries manage - are the French & Germans any less healthy than us?

Yes thanks Allia, that did become apparent after we'd researched that.

From what I understand, even in the US, if for example a foreign national were to have say a serious road accident or be caught up in some sort of terrorist explosion, they would be hospitalised and treated for their injuries. Emergencies would be covered, but I believe there are categories of hospitals in the US and some British people I know who did have such a road accident (minor) and were transported to hospital at which time ,they being conscious they were asked for details of their insurance policy to determine the level of hospital care they went on to receive.

So we get threads condemning foolish Brits who travel to places without insurance in place and then set up Go Fund Me or whatever to aid their hospital fees and return home. Most countries do not want to treat foreign nationals to their health care free of charge. Personally, if I couldn't afford the insurance, and it can be costly, I wouldn't go. Of course I think any foreign national caught up in an accident or for a dire emergency should receive medical care though, treatment for on going conditions are another matter.

petra

The £200 million is only for invoices issued. The majority of hospitals don’t issue an invoice as they know is a waste of time.

How do you know this is the case?

Agree this thread is mean spirited and gives no real facts to support what is often a “fake news” trope used by far right wing/Tabloid reader mentality. I would be interested to know evidence of the dates, the amount that was not recouped, how it relates to different parts of NHS and over what period of time this relates to. It would be inhumane not to treat travellers in need. NHS needs overhaul (so much waste and old fashioned processes which I have seen as recent volunteer in local hospital) but that is a separate issue. I don’t think we are being taken for a ride. That implies intent. We need to pay more tax and get to grips with real issues competently - which sad/disappointing to say, this govt is not so far.

Ah, I’ve just seen the Sunday Newspaper front pages, I’ve found the very reliable, ahem, source.

This is so unpleasant they are all human beings!

The Channel Islands are a British Crown Dependency, not part of the UK. They have their own independent government.

All I know is we never set off on our trips to the US and other far flung places without insurance policies to cover sickness, accidents and possible hospitalsaton. We even had to take out such a policy when we went to Jersey the island, not New Jersey, last year no reciprocal arrangements in place apparently. I thought the Channel Islands being part of Britain wouldn't preclude Britons from the mainland being treated health wise.

Casdon

The NHS budget for this financial year is £195.6 billion. £200 million is a very small black hole in the greater scheme of things, given you didn’t report how much is recouped from people who are not entitled to receive free treatment on the NHS, or what the cost to the NHS of chasing up those who should pay but don’t would be. Isolated headline threads are meaningless without the context.

This Primrose where is your historical evidence please?

nanna8

So what would you do,then? Chuck them in the sea ? Travellers sometimes get sick and I would hate for the UK or Australia to be like the USA where it is incredibly expensive for visitors and if you haven’t got insurance, well God help you. People coming over specifically for some sort of treatment and that alone - now that is abuse and should be stopped immediately unless they are from a very poor disadvantaged country.

People coming over specifically for some sort of treatment and that alone - now that is abuse and should be stopped immediately

I agree.

Thank you, Australia, for my prompt treatment - two minutes wait in the A&E!

Is it because we have a reciprocal arrangement with their countries?

I've had emergency treatment in Australia and a European country. No-one asked for my travel insurance, they just treated me.

I did wonder as they were very well off.

Whitewavemark2

I believe Badenoch’s mother came to the U.K. to give birth.

To be fair, I believe she gave birth in a private hospital. The prize in this case wasn't free healthcare, but the right to a British passport for the baby.

Sparklefizz

Luckygirl3 I am proud to live in a country that treats a sick human being as in need of help regardless of nationality

Well, in that case we all need to pay more tax so that we can treat the world's sick people, don't we?

Come on, we're being taken for a ride.

There was a second sentence to my post ......

I believe Badenoch’s mother came to the U.K. to give birth.

So what would you do,then? Chuck them in the sea ? Travellers sometimes get sick and I would hate for the UK or Australia to be like the USA where it is incredibly expensive for visitors and if you haven’t got insurance, well God help you. People coming over specifically for some sort of treatment and that alone - now that is abuse and should be stopped immediately unless they are from a very poor disadvantaged country.

I worked in a Hospital near a immigration detention centre, we frequently saw patients from there, this has been happening for well over 20 years in my area. It's not a new thing.

The Maternity unit I worked on for 17 years was the closest to Gatwick Airport so we had more than our fair share of health tourists.
The case that sticks out to me and made national news was a woman from Nigeria who had planned to travel to the US to deliver her IVF triplets as it had better health care. She was refused entry to the US and on the plane home went into labour. When the flight landed at Gatwick she was brought to our unit. The complexities of her case meant she was referred to a London hospital. Her 3 babies were delivered by Caesarean section and all needed specialist neo-natal care. The final bill was £500.000.
She refused to pay saying she hadn't intended to come to the UK.
For me, I don't believe anyone should be denied medical care.
However, a thorough overhaul of the NHS from top to bottom would save £m's. If this was a business, the way it is run would have seen it bankrupt years ago.

MaizieD

What an unpleasant thread.

I agree.