200 £million NHS black hole foreign health tourists

Good post Casdon (especially the last sentence).

I don’t know what the answer is either growstuff. Some people do want to be looked after, and they therefore want to stay in hospital regardless of the impact on others, some families do not want to, or cannot, take responsibility for their parents, and unfortunately that can be because they want the money that would otherwise be spent on care costs, and others have such complex care needs that it is impractical for them to be cared for at home, although that is their wish. Add to that a diminishing number of care homes, and a woefully insufficient number of carers. No policies which recognise the rights of patients cater for the vagaries of individual circumstances, and the NHS is blamed, in many circumstances with no justification for the blame.

This shouldn't really be the NHS's responsibility, although it gets landed with the problem. I don't know what the solution is - maybe the provision of more community hospitals/homes?

I know somebody at the moment who is blocking a bed in an acute hospital. She's been offered a place in rehab/community hospital, but won't go because she's been there before and doesn't like it. Maybe I'm being cynical, but it seems she has an acute "turn" whenever pressure is put on for her to go to the community hospital. She's been having carers four times a day at home (funded by the local authority), but was always moaning about them. She gets AA, so could afford to pay for more care, but won't. She seems to think that if she hangs on in hospital for long enough and becomes too much of an inconvenience, she'll get more hours of funded care at home.

It makes me quite cross for a number of reasons which I'm not going to disclose, but she has done very little over the years to help herself. If anybody were to look for a definition of "entitled" she's the embodiment of it. What makes me most cross is that that there are many, many people who deserve better care, but aren't getting it because resources are limited/rationed.

There’s always an issue with hoists, because most agencies will only use them with a double handed call, which is much harder for them to provide than a single handed call. It’s a particular nightmare in rural areas, as carers have different routes to cover, and are thin on the ground.

We knew someone who had a downstairs room adapted as a bedroom with a hospital bed but the person needed a hoist. As none of the carers had been trained to use a hoist, he had to stay in hospital for weeks longer than he needed to, bed blocking.

A hospital bed can be delivered very quickly, so I think what you’re describing is a son who is gaming the system. The NHS is unable to discharge to an unsafe environment, and I’d guess he is using spurious excuses to prevent the discharge. There is no legal onus on next of kin to look after their parents, and the NHS or Social Services, depending on patient need, will ultimately have to move him to a non NHS bed without the son’s consent, or the patient’s if he has capacity. It’s a complex and painful process to do this, particularly if solicitors are involved, and you may be surprised to know how many families are prepared to play the system to the bitter end.

Casdon

So what would you propose the NHS do in the event of a patient stuck in hospital because the next of kin have not adapted a room in their home for them Primrose53, when presumably the patient wants to go home. Who would pay for a care home, would he go against his will, or would you send him home without the adaptations? Would that it were as black and white as you portray.

They’re not adaptations. It’s just emptying a small room out and putting in a hospital bed which is provided. Carers would come in several times a day.

The OT brought him home months ago for a visit and to see what was needed to make it safe for him. They have already put a ramp on the front door. Everything he needs will be provided just as it was for us.

The son openly admits he is in no hurry to have his Dad home as it is costing nothing to the family while he is in hospital.

The NHS could save millions by getting rid of the senior management at Fife!

The incompetence revealed at the employment tribunal is stunning - especially the Diversity Officer (Isla Bumba), previous employment as a barmaid and covid contact tracer, who was appointed on a band 7 salary (around £41,000-48,000 a year) who was unable to tell the tribunal what sex she was as she hadn't had her chromosomes tested

Many years ago, my family came for a visit and my sister fell ill. We took her to our local surgery.

I told the doctor that my sister was not a resident in this country. This doctor consulted another doctor, and both apologised profusely to my sister because they had to charge her for the antibiotics.

The UK government has been rolling out digital IDs (EVisas) to non-British nationals residing in this country. The EVisa contains the identity and immigration status of the person.

You need the EVisa to enter this country, apply for a job, apply for a rental property, access the benefits at DWP and access the NHS.

The EVisa is only going to work if potential employer, landlord, DWP and the NHS ask for proof of UK residence.

Casdon

So what would you propose the NHS do in the event of a patient stuck in hospital because the next of kin have not adapted a room in their home for them Primrose53, when presumably the patient wants to go home. Who would pay for a care home, would he go against his will, or would you send him home without the adaptations? Would that it were as black and white as you portray.

Casdon Aren’t they supposed to get an assessment from OT/ social services to check if things are in place at home?
Same with my dad, picked up Covid from day care, in hospital a week, supposed to be discharged on the Monday.
Sunday night, they gave him someone else’s blood transfusion, meant for the fella in the next bed. It could have killed him as it wasn’t his blood type- kept in then for a further 5 weeks, even though they said it hadn’t harmed him. He was never the same after that. I think he was on a red flag. TBH
I complained to the hospital & demanded a hospital bed, and various other equipment.
We got him home finally & nursed him at home.

Allira, I ended up getting a chain & attached that to ring on the zipper part of the pocket in her bag. Things you have to do to keep your personal stuff safe. I also put bells on the purse, because she’s had her bag dipped in town, twice.

Allira

Oh dear!!

Perhaps don't put all your cards in one basket wallet

Ha Allira, heaven forbid!

Oh Oreo, it has been known 🙄😂

So what would you propose the NHS do in the event of a patient stuck in hospital because the next of kin have not adapted a room in their home for them Primrose53, when presumably the patient wants to go home. Who would pay for a care home, would he go against his will, or would you send him home without the adaptations? Would that it were as black and white as you portray.

Cold

Part of the problem is that the NHS seems totally clueless in how to deal with people from abroad and many clinics don't even know how to deal with the paperwork.

In Sweden you either recite your registration number to demonstrate your entitlement to treatment, show them your european health card or pay the much bigger than normal fee.

But in the UK they just look at you like deer caught in the headlights. Experienced it when dd was injured on holiday in the UK - an animal bite that became infected. We waited 90 mins at the minor injury unit before being told that her injury was too complicated for them. Then we were directed to a GP practice and got out all of our stuff (passport/european health card) and nobody wanted to see it.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there! They just can’t be bothered.

The money that’s wasted in the NHS is shocking. Just as an example - a neighbour of ours has been in hospital since February. His son (late 20s) lives with him and told me back at end of April that he was ready to come home. The son said he had to get a room ready downstairs for him.

The hospital wanted him to go to a care home while this was being done but he refused. The son has still not got the room ready so he has been in hospital unnecessarily for 5 months!

I dread to think what those months in hospital have cost and there will be people all over the country in the same position.

There was a woman in my late Mum’s care home who was in there while the council did some work on her home. She told me she was in no hurry to go home as she was using no electricity or water, no food bills and was waited on hand and foot. She also spent many months in there for free whilst my Mum was paying nearly £1000 a week.

Part of the problem is that the NHS seems totally clueless in how to deal with people from abroad and many clinics don't even know how to deal with the paperwork.

In Sweden you either recite your registration number to demonstrate your entitlement to treatment, show them your european health card or pay the much bigger than normal fee.

But in the UK they just look at you like deer caught in the headlights. Experienced it when dd was injured on holiday in the UK - an animal bite that became infected. We waited 90 mins at the minor injury unit before being told that her injury was too complicated for them. Then we were directed to a GP practice and got out all of our stuff (passport/european health card) and nobody wanted to see it.

Oh dear!!

Perhaps don't put all your cards in one basket wallet

Allira

^Mind you my mum could loose that^
🤔 has she got a zipped compartment in her handbag?

She might lose the handbag😲

Mind you my mum could loose that
🤔 has she got a zipped compartment in her handbag?

Mt61

Oh thanks for the link Allira. I shall look into those- do they stop cards being skimmed or whatever they call it?

I think so. My SisIL gave me one and said it did, I always use it.

Mind you my mum could loose that. Is there a space for Apple air tag? Just bought one to go on her keys. Mind you I am going the same way loosing stuff 😩 Its a worry.

Oh thanks for the link Allira. I shall look into those- do they stop cards being skimmed or whatever they call it?

MaizieD

What an unpleasant thread.

It needs addressing. On holiday in Egypt I had travel diarrhoea and ended up in hospital there. The hospital refused to take the needle for the drip out of my hand until our insurance company had paid up.

Mt61

ID is very good thing but my fear of having all this information on one card & having to carry it round & loosing it.
My mum is always loosing her bus pass, so if it’s a card like that, could all that be cloned.
Can I’d information not just go on a mobile? Be much simpler & free perhaps!

Can you buy her one of these, Mt61?
They are very handy.

"Aluminium Credit Card Holder Wallet CASE Purse Metal Business Card Protector UK"

Available from Amazon and various other outlets.

Mt61

ID is very good thing but my fear of having all this information on one card & having to carry it round & loosing it.
My mum is always loosing her bus pass, so if it’s a card like that, could all that be cloned.
Can I’d information not just go on a mobile? Be much simpler & free perhaps!

ID I mean 🙄