So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

ronib

So why isn’t there some/any initiative like a peace keeping UN force willing to help create a Hamas free Gaza alongside the IDF? There needs to be strong oversight and help to guide Israel clear terrorists from what is a relatively small area of land. The rest of the world needs to step up and take some responsibility and control as best it can. Israel seems to suggest that Gaza needs to be self ruling but with the safety of Israel guaranteed. Is that in itself unacceptable?

Good post.👍🏻

Whitewavemark2

Oreo

Babs03

@phil51

Islamophobia right there.
There are millions of peaceful and law abiding Muslims living throughout the world.
What you just said tells me everything I need to know about your take on this conflict.
Imagine if anyone said the problem was Judaism.
The outrage should be the same.
Will not report because I would rather commenters see your true colours.

Islam being the extreme in the Muslim faith.Hamas and other groups wish for an Islamist Caliphate all across the Middle East.
phil51 did not say that Muslims are the problem.

That statement is utterly incorrect, and shows a degree of ignorance, I had not thought existed on these threads.

I should have preceded the word Islam with the word extreme
phil51 didn’t say that all Muslims are the problem but extreme Islamists everywhere def are.

Babs03

@phil51

Islamophobia right there.
There are millions of peaceful and law abiding Muslims living throughout the world.
What you just said tells me everything I need to know about your take on this conflict.
Imagine if anyone said the problem was Judaism.
The outrage should be the same.
Will not report because I would rather commenters see your true colours.

I am not afraid of Islam - which is what a phobia is.

But I have read the Quaran, listen to the speeches of the Islamic leaders and then there are the hadiths. Is the prophet Muhammad really a good role model? Muslims seen to think he is.

As I said Oreo three are extremists, and the majority of Muslims don’t have any time for them. But if you use the word Islam as being the problem I assure you that is Islamophobia.
There are also extremists in the Knesset but if I said the problem is Judaism that would be antisemitic.

Islam is not the extreme it is the name of the religion Muslims follow.
There are extremists but all Muslims follow Islam.

Babs03

Oreo my husband was once a Muslim and we have Muslim members of the family so believe me when I say that to declare Islam as the problem is Islamophobia.
Muslims do follow Islam you know.

Hamas as an extremist terrorist Islamist group are the problem in Gaza.

Oreo

Babs03

@phil51

Islamophobia right there.
There are millions of peaceful and law abiding Muslims living throughout the world.
What you just said tells me everything I need to know about your take on this conflict.
Imagine if anyone said the problem was Judaism.
The outrage should be the same.
Will not report because I would rather commenters see your true colours.

Islam being the extreme in the Muslim faith.Hamas and other groups wish for an Islamist Caliphate all across the Middle East.
phil51 did not say that Muslims are the problem.

That statement is utterly incorrect, and shows a degree of ignorance, I had not thought existed on these threads.

No Babs03 it’s def your problem as your posts seem to be getting ever more emotional.Keep it calm and logical is better.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes a deleted post.

Oreo my husband was once a Muslim and we have Muslim members of the family so believe me when I say that to declare Islam as the problem is Islamophobia.
Muslims do follow Islam you know.

So why isn’t there some/any initiative like a peace keeping UN force willing to help create a Hamas free Gaza alongside the IDF? There needs to be strong oversight and help to guide Israel clear terrorists from what is a relatively small area of land. The rest of the world needs to step up and take some responsibility and control as best it can. Israel seems to suggest that Gaza needs to be self ruling but with the safety of Israel guaranteed. Is that in itself unacceptable?

I was trying to make light of a things Oreo but if you must twist everything, that’s fine.
Am hoping that if most of us ever met up for whatever reason we could agree to disagree and get along but hey if you think that sounds condescending too perhaps that is your problem and not mine.

Babs03

@phil51

Islamophobia right there.
There are millions of peaceful and law abiding Muslims living throughout the world.
What you just said tells me everything I need to know about your take on this conflict.
Imagine if anyone said the problem was Judaism.
The outrage should be the same.
Will not report because I would rather commenters see your true colours.

Islam being the extreme in the Muslim faith.Hamas and other groups wish for an Islamist Caliphate all across the Middle East.
phil51 did not say that Muslims are the problem.

Why bring in all the ‘am sure you’re a lovely person’ stuff which is both a bit personal and condescending?
I don’t know if ronib or anyone will disagree, I don’t disagree for a start.
Starmer has a lot of pressure on him from the far left in his party , the Muslim MP’s and yes, the Muslim vote to worry about.
We don’t know yet what will happen by the end of September and if Starmer will have to carry through what he’s promised.

@phil51

Islamophobia right there.
There are millions of peaceful and law abiding Muslims living throughout the world.
What you just said tells me everything I need to know about your take on this conflict.
Imagine if anyone said the problem was Judaism.
The outrage should be the same.
Will not report because I would rather commenters see your true colours.

It really surprises me that otherwise intelligent people think a rogue like Netanyahu, who was heading for jail before the conflict, was deeply unpopular with Israelis, and has extreme right opinions which include getting rid of all Palestinians, is actually doing a good job in Gaza.
I mean just what has he done that any other bloodthirsty despot couldn’t have done just as well??
Anybody with a big enough army and state of the art weapons supplied by the US could commit genocide, no biggy.
So, just what is so good about this vile individual?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Actually ronib it's not a very complex problem. You can weave it in to a complicated narrative if that suits you but the clear eyed can see exactly what the problem is.

ronib

I am very happy to hear someone’s reasoning but it doesn’t seem to exist? It is a bit of a cheap jibe to a very serious and complex question Aveline and others.

Ok, I’ll bite. Fact is Starmer and other western leaders in the total absence of a US President who can bring pressure to bear, are attempting to dissuade Netanyahu from doing what he is doing. It won’t work because Netanyahu is doing it anyway and the only leader who can dissuade him is more interested in buying Gaza and turning it into a Vegas of the ME.
Now am sure you are a lovely person whom I could happily sit down and have a cuppa with but am afraid before you respond to this you should know that we really are going to have to agree to disagree, because am sure you will heartily disagree with every word I just said.

I am very happy to hear someone’s reasoning but it doesn’t seem to exist? It is a bit of a cheap jibe to a very serious and complex question Aveline and others.

ronib

Well you could try Iam64 but I imagine you will struggle.

Indeed. Not least because you wouldn’t agree with a single word of it from the get-go.

I'm sorry for you ronib. I'd have thought it was crystal clear

Well you could try Iam64 but I imagine you will struggle.

Basic fundamentals are alive and well at 10 Downing Street.
If you dont understand why our government isn’t fully supporting Netanyahu, nothing I can say will help

Why is Starmer not fully supporting Netanyahu? What a question.

Why would or should Starmer fully support Netanyahu?