So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Don’t we need a prime minister who acts according to some kind of first principles? Some basic fundamentals wouldn’t go amiss. Why is Starmer not fully supporting Netanyahu who is trying to move the war towards some kind of political resolution? Would we need permission from the rest of the world if we faced this existential threat?

Starmer is influenced by events and analysis. He’s accused by some of acting on Israel Gaza in away “his Jewish family” direct. By others of wanting to keep the Islamic vote. That ship sailed long ago.

But you have just pointed out why Starmer’s position has changed Babs03.
Blowing in the wind do we think?

ronib

Keir Starmer is influenced by the Muslim vote.

I doubt that very much, many Muslim councillors and even I believe an MP, resigned in disgust over Starmer’s response to what was happening in Gaza, he has only recently shown any recognition of what is happening there.
But whatever floats your boat.

ronib

Keir Starmer is influenced by the Muslim vote.

Exclusively? I doubt it very much. There are those who claim his wife's faith influences him. Seems he can't win.

The Times is running a story to-day that Britain should be careful of not upsetting Israel as we get info. from them re; terrorist plots. Politics is always about horse-trading

Other than GN I am not on social media so don’t know what is happening there, and am sorry if Michael Rosen and anyone else courageous enough to stick their head above the parapet and criticise Israel’s behaviour, is getting abuse.

If only there could be a change of government in Israel. Surely he would not, coukd not, win next time.
. He struggled long enough to get a coalition together last time, ending up with powerful far right zionists as partners.
He has had decades in government, he and his cohorts are power crazy and he needs to go. To prison… where he belongs.

Keir Starmer is influenced by the Muslim vote.

I don't understand why this man wants to link all Jews to the actions of the Israeli state. He's doing the opposite of what so many other Jews are trying to do.

Somebody mentioned Michael Rosen upthread. I don't know whether people have seen the abuse he suffers from other Jews on social media.

I don't think people should regard any spokesperson as speaking for everybody in a given group.

If Israel withdraw from us, and other countries which have recognised Palestine ( about 145 in all) they will also lose out on information in return so an own goal. Bullying and threats may be their modus operandi but won’t work this time.

As for Keir Starmer being adrift. I doubt that. Of course he will be informed on what’s going on behind the scenes. Things we know nothing of for now at least.

As for a lay leader from manchesters Jewish community, he is entitled to speak his truth just as the rest of us are.

Anniebach

The key lay leader of Manchester’s Jewish community has signalled that his organisation’s relationship with the British government will be profoundly affected if the UK unilaterally recognises a Palestinian state, suggesting it may no longer attend government functions and reassess how it “give[s] a platform to Senior Ministers”.

That's blackmail. Hopefully, it doesn't work.

Anniebach

The key lay leader of Manchester’s Jewish community has signalled that his organisation’s relationship with the British government will be profoundly affected if the UK unilaterally recognises a Palestinian state, suggesting it may no longer attend government functions and reassess how it “give[s] a platform to Senior Ministers”.

Pulling out all the stops to influence government policy I see, seems Murdoch isn’t alone in manipulating the political landscape.
As Smileless has said is bully boy tactics.
If it works and Starmer steps away from his decision that says more about shameful back room browbeating than it does about Starmer.

growstuff Why is Starmer adrift? I don’t know what briefing documents he has read but he doesn’t seem to be adding much to the discussion. He doesn’t seem very critical of Iran’s support of Hamas. He doesn’t seem to understand that Hamas will constantly threaten Israel. Israel should not be made to accept Hamas as terrorists ruling Gaza especially given the stated aim of destroying Israel. Has Starmer addressed this when calling for the recognition of a Palestinian state? What security is offered to Israel in Starmer’s plan?

A decision they are free to make but IMO we should not give into attempts of blackmail or 'bully boy' tactics.

The key lay leader of Manchester’s Jewish community has signalled that his organisation’s relationship with the British government will be profoundly affected if the UK unilaterally recognises a Palestinian state, suggesting it may no longer attend government functions and reassess how it “give[s] a platform to Senior Ministers”.

ronib

Given that Hamas has strong support from Iran, I don’t know if Netanyahu has an enduring solution. We can but hope. But Starmer is well adrift in his position it seems.

Why do you think Starmer is adrift?

I hope it doesn't change the decision.

MayBee70

having said that, I see that at the end it say ‘this is unlikely to happen’. So why the big scare story? I hadn’t realised just how much security equipment Israel possesses.

It may give Starmer pause for thought but we don’t know the full story or what goes on behind the scenes.

Given that Hamas has strong support from Iran, I don’t know if Netanyahu has an enduring solution. We can but hope. But Starmer is well adrift in his position it seems.

ronib

Time will tell Smileless2012
But which Arab country is likely to want any involvement?

None of them will. The solution is probably to unite the West Bank and Gaza and for all countries to support a Fatah-led government, not that it would be easy.

Yes I was looking at it yesterday, we cooperate quite a bit - technology, pharmaceuticals and other stuff.

having said that, I see that at the end it say ‘this is unlikely to happen’. So why the big scare story? I hadn’t realised just how much security equipment Israel possesses.

coun-
Binyamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem last week
COHEN-MAGEN/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

terparts that thwarted an alleged Iranian-linked terrorist plot on the Israeli embassy in London. It led to two of the largest counterterror raids in the UK in recent years, when five men were arrested in connection to the alleged plan to target the embassy in Kensington, west London.
The UK has also made use of Israeli-made drones for surveillance operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and Israeli defence equipment has been credited with saving the lives of British soldiers during military conflict with both countries.
Defence co-operation is also deeply ingrained between the two countries; Israeli companies sell weapons systems, parts and software to British companies such as BAE.
Israeli firms are deeply integrated in the British defence industry's supply chains and ac-
count for a substantial chunk of the overall trading partnership between the two countries, which is worth £6 billion and supports 38,000 jobs.
Members of the Israeli government are said to be split over whether to cut ties with Britain. Some warn that it would have a detrimental impact on the Israeli economy and end the assistance being provided by the British military to fly RAF aircraft over Gaza to help find missing hostages.
Other British assets in the region are being handed over to the Israeli military so it has real-time information on the movement of captured Israelis.
Pulling defence co-operation would also have a significant economic impact to the Israeli economy because its exports far outweigh imports in the industry.
Britain also continues to supply spare parts for F-35 fighter
jets despite suspending other export licences to Israel where the equipment was used to commit or facilitate violations of international law in Gaza.
The Israeli embassy in London cautioned that any recognition of a Palestinian state in effect rewarded Hamas, but declined to comment on the consideration of intelligence ties until September.
An embassy official told The Times: “This counterproductive move will certainly not contribute to deepening the mutually beneficial relations between Israel and those who advance this ill faith agenda.”
The move would mark an all-time low for British-Israeli relations, which have come under significant strain since the Labour government suspended some export licences to Israel in September and in June the UK sanctioned two far-right Israeli ministers.
The UK and Israel have collaborated on intelligence sharing for decades, beginning before the creation of the state of Israel and the recruitment of Jewish informants during the Mandate era in Palestine, which included code-breaking, counter-insurgency and surveillance.
Experts predicted that Israel would not go ahead with plans to pull defence co-operation given the extent of mutual intelligence sharing as well as the economic implications and said it was more likely to be used as a threat in an
attempt to force a change of mind on Palestinian statehood.
A spokesman from the British government said: “We do not comment on anonymous speculation about intelligence matters.”

From todays Times..
Israel could cut security ties if Starmer recognises Palestine
Israel has provided crucial information to Britain's spy agencies about terror threats in the UK — withdrawing this would have serious implications

Matt Dathan, Home Affairs Editor | Gabrielle Weiniger, Israel Correspondent
Israel is considering withdrawing defence and security co-operation with the UK if Sir Keir Starmer goes ahead with recognising Palestine, in a move that could undermine national security.
Diplomatic sources have told The Times that Binyamin Netanyahu's government is examining the response as one of a range of options if Britain presses ahead with Palestinian recognition next month.
An official warned that Britain and other countries considering diplomatic recognition should “carefully consider” the consequences of such a move.
Another diplomatic source said: “London needs to be careful because Bibi [Netanyahu] and his ministers have cards they could play too. Israel values its partnership with the UK but recent decisions mean it is coming under
Food packages are parachuted into Gaza on Thursday. Britain is pressing Israel to allow more aid into the territory
MAHMOUD ABU HAMDA/GETTY IMAGES

pressure and the UK has a lot to lose if Israel's government decides to take steps in response.”
Israel has reacted furiously to the decision by Starmer, accusing him of handing Hamas a “prize for terror” by going ahead with recognition outside of a peace process and before the remaining hostages are released. Starmer has said Britain will recognise the state of Palestine next month unless Israel allows more aid into Gaza, stops annexing land in the West Bank, agrees to a ceasefire and signs up to a long-term peace process.
On Thursday Netanyahu said he intended to take control of all of Gaza but did “not want to keep
it” as he convened a meeting with his security cabinet to discuss a complete military takeover.
Withdrawing defence and security co-operation with Britain would have significant economic and security implications for both countries, experts warned.
Over the past couple of years, Israel intelligence has provided crucial information to Britain's spy agencies about Iranian-backed threats in the UK, which now pose as big a threat to Britain as Russia.
Intelligence from Mossad, Israel's national spy agency, is understood to have passed crucial information to its British coun-
Binyamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem last week
COHEN-MAGEN/AFP/GETTY IMAGES

terparts that thwarted an alleged Iranian-linked terrorist plot on the Israeli embassy in London. It led to two of the largest counterterror raids in the UK in recent years, when five men were arrested in connection to the alleged plan to target the embassy in Kensington, west London.
The UK has also made use of Israeli-made drones for surveillance operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and Israeli defence equipment has been credited with saving the lives of British soldiers during military conflict with both countries.
Defence co-operation is also deeply ingrained between the two countries; Israeli companies sell weapons systems, parts and software to British companies such as BAE.
Israeli firms are deeply integrated in the British defence industry's supply chains and ac-
count for a substantial chunk of the overall trading partnership between the two countries, which is worth £6 billion and supports 38,000 jobs.
Members of the Israeli government are said to be split over whether to cut ties with Britain. Some warn that it would have a detrimental impact on the Israeli economy and end the assistance being provided by the British military to fly RAF aircraft over Gaza to help find missing hostages.
Other British assets in the region are being handed over to the Israeli military so it has real-time information on the movement of captured Israelis.
Pulling defence co-operation would also have a significant economic impact to the Israeli economy because its exports far outweigh imports in the industry.
Britain also continues to supply spare parts for F-35 fighter
jets despite suspending other export licences to Israel where the equipment was used to commit or facilitate violations of international law in Gaza.
The Israeli embassy in London cautioned that any recognition of a Palestinian state in effect rewarded Hamas, but declined to comment on the consideration of intelligence ties until September.
An embassy official told The Times: “This counterproductive move will certainly not contribute to deepening the mutually beneficial relations between Israel and those who advance this ill faith agenda.”
The move would mark an all-time low for British-Israeli relations, which have come under significant strain since the Labour government suspended some export licences to Israel in September and in June the UK sanctioned two far-right Israeli ministers.
The UK and Israel have collaborated on intelligence sharing for decades, beginning before the creation of the state of Israel and the recruitment of Jewish informants during the Mandate era in Palestine, which included code-breaking, counter-insurgency and surveillance.
Experts predicted that Israel would not go ahead with plans to pull defence co-operation given the extent of mutual intelligence sharing as well as the economic implications and said it was more likely to be used as a threat in an
attempt to force a change of mind on Palestinian statehood.
A spokesman from the British government said: “We do not comment on anonymous speculation about intelligence matters.”