So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

ronib

I would prefer less emotional responses Babs03.
Hamas is the instigator and is responsible for 60,000 deaths. Let’s start counting Israeli deaths too.

I agree with you 100%

I grieve for the murdered Ariel and Kfir Bibas and also their mother.

Babs03

‘The legal definition of genocide, according to the 1948 Genocide Convention, is the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such, through specific acts. These acts include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction, imposing measures to prevent births within the group, or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group’

In case anyone is confused about what constitutes genocide.

So it’s much the same as what the Arab world want to do to the Jews.

Oh 😄😄 snap

Babs03

Indeed.
I mean look at Syria, Iraq, Iran, Kurdistan and Yemen.
Terrible places to live right now due to ongoing conflicts and sectarianism, in no small part down to western government’s interference.
By comparison Israel is a very safe and stable democracy the majority of the time, and would be even safer if they had made peace with the Palestinians under Yitzhak Rabin.

Babs03
My jaw gapes at some of your statements.Israel does better economically and in every other way because it’s an open liberal democratic country.
The countries run by Islamist clerics or cliques never do well.
Gaza could have been so much better if its hamas government had actually wanted to give their own people a nicer life there, but no, all they wanted to do was spend millions on weapons and ensure the children were brainwashed to want to kill Jews.All this talk of ‘now Gazans will want to become terrorists’ when in fact that’s what they were brought up to think by hamas anyway.Some of the captured footage from the 7th Oct and the captured Gazans who took part in it showed that some were 16 and 17 years old.
They had murdered families and filmed on their phones.One said ‘ look Mother your son is a hero he has killed Jews with his bare hands’ ! A lie as he had actually used a blunt hoe to kill a poor Thai gardener by beheading him. Young men in Gaza were trained to this hatred from birth.
Which is why I said the other day that if more become terrorists then so be it, because they were all brainwashed from a young age to be anyway.

Definition of ethnic cleansing

Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.

Definition of Genocide

Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Number of deaths given by the terrorists who started the war

I would prefer less emotional responses Babs03.
Hamas is the instigator and is responsible for 60,000 deaths. Let’s start counting Israeli deaths too.

‘The legal definition of genocide, according to the 1948 Genocide Convention, is the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such, through specific acts. These acts include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction, imposing measures to prevent births within the group, or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group’

In case anyone is confused about what constitutes genocide.

ronib

Palestinian population in Gaza thought to be around 2.1 million.
200 dead from malnutrition. Does not indicate genocide.

So 60,000 dead, many more uncounted under the rubble, isn’t enough?!
And let’s not forget this isn’t over yet.
Would you prefer over a million to qualify as genocide?
Good grief!

Palestinian population in Gaza thought to be around 2.1 million.
200 dead from malnutrition. Does not indicate genocide.

Breaking new this morning:

A top UN official warns of "catastrophic consequences" if Israel expands its military operations in Gaza

It follows reports in Israeli media that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is pushing for a total reoccupation of the Strip

Many of Israel's allies would be against such a move as they push for an end to the war but, when asked:

US President Donald Trump*'s response
*That's pretty much going to be up to Israel -Trump is supporting food aid only

Israel's security cabinet is due to meet on Thursday, and would need to approve any such action
The country's army chief and other military leaders reportedly oppose the strategy, and some families of hostages fear it could further endanger their loved ones

All eyes on Netanjahu's meeting tomorrow but I dont think we need a crystal ball

Its up on the BBC live feed today, where you can read a great many details on what I have quoted above,

Which does of course give different POV

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cvgvnp57yp7t

Comparing IRA with Hamas !

One glimmer of hope though. There are reports of deep splits between Netanyahu and the top military, who are arguing that Israel does not have the legitimacy to continue to fight in Gaza or to “establish a city of refugees” on its ruins.

Meanwhile members of the Israeli government are demanding that Israeli settlers be given the right to settle in Gaza.

So death from starvation has now reached approx. 200.

Oct. 23rd, Israel placed a total blockade on all the normal routes of food, water, fuel etc entering Gaza.

A massive aid distribution was set up by the UN and largely entered through check routes patrolled by the IDF, who gradually over the following months allowed less and less into Gaza causing hardship, particularly for mothers needing stuff like baby formula etc.

In May Israel closed down all aid from the UN and set up its own aid centres. Very little food has since been distributed.

By July we were told of the first deaths from starvation.

Today the number is 200 and rising exponentially.

Genocide.

Quote Babs03 Wed 06-Aug-25 08:02:01
All of Europe has suffered terrorist attacks, including the UK with the IRA, but none took the action Israel has taken.
The US did though, after 9/11. They bombed Iraq with our help. So perhaps Trump is the last person to tell Netanyahu to desist.

Do tell where in the UK did the IRA carry out the attacks that
Hamas carried out in Israel 7th October 2023

Yes, no peace - in fact the war is to be stepped up and the military is to occupy the whole of Gaza.

Trump does not intend to stop Netanyahu.

Expect many more deaths and severe suffering.

The question now is - what is to happen to the Palestinians.

One day Netanyahu and cohorts will have to answer for this outrage.

ronib

How do you see Israel making peace with Palestine? Babs03 What time frame do you plan?

Israel won’t make peace. That isn’t on the radar.

All of Europe has suffered terrorist attacks, including the UK with the IRA, but none took the action Israel has taken.
The US did though, after 9/11. They bombed Iraq with our help. So perhaps Trump is the last person to tell Netanyahu to desist.

How do you see Israel making peace with Palestine? Babs03 What time frame do you plan?

Indeed.
I mean look at Syria, Iraq, Iran, Kurdistan and Yemen.
Terrible places to live right now due to ongoing conflicts and sectarianism, in no small part down to western government’s interference.
By comparison Israel is a very safe and stable democracy the majority of the time, and would be even safer if they had made peace with the Palestinians under Yitzhak Rabin.

Israel one of the safest countries in ME, !

Iran is toothless, they had a chance to fight directly with Israel but couldn’t muster up the wherewithal, harsh sanctions have crippled the country and it is on the verge of economic collapse, many of its people have left to seek a better life elsewhere and those remaining could take the opportunity of a war with Israel to topple their own regime.
As for funding Hamas or Hezbollah, think again, they may be capable of sending rather antiquated Russian missiles their way but they have nothing like the arsenal Israel has from the US and western countries.
Those days are over. In fact Iran, before Israel struck, was looking forward to talks with the US to try and end at least some sanctions.
Israel is, as usual, is over egging the pudding in order to get away with genocide based upon national security. It is one of the safest countries in the ME.

Hamas is funded by Iran and other countries. Iran is fighting a proxy war with Israel. Iran wants the complete destruction of Israel in its current form. Iran wants the whole of Israel to become a Palestinian country.
Not sure how I would respond in these circumstances. I think I’d be inclined to fight and fight very hard.