So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

What duty and obligation does Hamas have

Hamas have the same obligations as every other human being - to respect life and respect the law. But they are terrorists! By definition they won’t be doing that.

Look behind the real issue - why do they even exist, why have terrorists emerged in that region? Is what the Israelis are doing, more or less likely to lay the foundations for the next terrorist group?

We had terrorists in Northern Ireland, but we didn’t bombard the whole population of Ireland with bombs, tanks, shells etc or cut off their food and water supplies and watch them starve to death.

growstuff

Babs03 I've written much the same as you. Sorry, I didn't see your post while I was writing mine.

That’s ok, great minds think alike 😄

Babs03 I've written much the same as you. Sorry, I didn't see your post while I was writing mine.

Correction - yet we call it a war as if two similar armies are squaring up to each other

ronib

The Israeli government is faced with the monumental task of looking after Israelis. It does not ask permission to do so. It may be making some mistakes in its strategy but it does not need our approval.
Hamas has been planning this attack for many years.

Very probably, but in the end Hamas hasn't achieved anything, so all those years of planning have been in vain. Hamas has been destroyed militarily. Holes were exposed in Israel's defences, so it needs to plug those, in order to defend itself.

Meanwhile, there is no way that Israel could control Gaza (and the West Bank) without draconian measures. It would need to make the current population disappear (either literally or force people to flee to whichever country would take them). The alternative is to have hostile populations who would need to be controlled constantly. The IDF, Mossad and Israeli police would need to be on duty 24/7 every day of the year and lives would be lost. That's why the British gave up the Palestinian Mandate.

I don't believe most Israelis want to be seen as a pariah state. I suspect they want safe lives in a modern world, but having resentful and hostile neighbours wouldn't give them any safety. What they can do is make absolutely sure their borders are safe. If the Hamas attack was the result of human error, Israel needs to train its forces better. I suspect it would continue to receive financial support from the US and other western powers.

ronib

What duty and obligation does Hamas have?

Hamas are a terrorist organisation right??
Israel is a first world democracy with nukes and state of the art weaponry as well as an anti missile dome that protects Israeli citizens.
I mean in this war do you see buildings razed to the ground in Tel Aviv??
Do you see towns and cities in Israel reduced to dust??
Yet we all it a war as if two. Similar armies are squaring up.
Terrorists have limited weapons and no tanks or helicopters etc., their reach is severely constrained.
Wiping out a people, bombing their homes to dust and starving them is not how any first world country deals with a terrorist group, and my question is to anyone disputing this. If a Hamas operative was hiding in a hospital in Israel would they blanket bomb the hospital and surrounding area or seek to deal with the terrorist more effectively??

StoneofDestiny

*The Israeli government is faced with the monumental task of looking after Israelis*

Sounds like the same mentality behind ‘America First’ - but remember that slogan was first used by the Ku Klux Klan!
The Israeli Government has a duty to
operate within International Law, uphold human rights and to seek peaceful resolution to disputes. Israel is doing none of that and there is No excuse for the barbarity we are seeing unfold before our eyes.

Especially as their cruel and inhumane actions in this genocide and the illegal settlement of the whole region- is the very thin that will put Jews at risk in the long run in the worst possible way.

StoneofDestiny

*Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is to propose fully reoccupying the Gaza Strip when he meets his security cabinet, Israeli media say*
"The die has been cast. We're going for the full conquest of the Gaza Strip – and defeating Hamas," local journalists quote a senior official as saying
Responding to reports that the army chief and other military leaders oppose the plan, the unnamed official said: "If that doesn't work for the chief of staff, he should resign."

No surprise - it’s been Netanyahu’s aim all along - kill the people of Gaza and steal their land. This has always been about more than ‘free the hostages’ or ‘Israel’s security’.

Of course it’s been the plan all along .

What duty and obligation does Hamas have?

The Israeli government is faced with the monumental task of looking after Israelis

Sounds like the same mentality behind ‘America First’ - but remember that slogan was first used by the Ku Klux Klan!
The Israeli Government has a duty to
operate within International Law, uphold human rights and to seek peaceful resolution to disputes. Israel is doing none of that and there is No excuse for the barbarity we are seeing unfold before our eyes.

Miriam Margot’s, who is Jewish, has commented on what the Israeli Government is doing in Gaza;

“The terrible thing I face is that Hitler won. He changed us, made us like him

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is to propose fully reoccupying the Gaza Strip when he meets his security cabinet, Israeli media say
"The die has been cast. We're going for the full conquest of the Gaza Strip – and defeating Hamas," local journalists quote a senior official as saying
Responding to reports that the army chief and other military leaders oppose the plan, the unnamed official said: "If that doesn't work for the chief of staff, he should resign."

No surprise - it’s been Netanyahu’s aim all along - kill the people of Gaza and steal their land. This has always been about more than ‘free the hostages’ or ‘Israel’s security’.

I think to say the Israeli government may be making some mistakes in its strategy is an understatement at the very least, and we can all see it doesn't need our approval or care whether it has it or not.

On Gaza, all that doctors see are gunshot wounds not who shot the bullets.Information is extremely hazy on that.If you’re in a crowd and someone is shooting you duck down and don’t see who’s shooting.It’s in hamas’s own interest to shoot crowds heading out for aid as it’s good propaganda for them.Then there are the criminal gangs, some working for hamas and some for themselves who want to scare crowds and get the aid to sell.It’s a very murky picture but go ahead and swallow all the hamas information if you want to

Allow independent witnesses and reporters in to Gaza then! It’s Israel’s decision to prohibit them - just as it’s Israel’s decision to stop adequate food from getting to the civilians!

The Israeli government is faced with the monumental task of looking after Israelis. It does not ask permission to do so. It may be making some mistakes in its strategy but it does not need our approval.
Hamas has been planning this attack for many years.

How many times would you be willing for your kin to be wiped out before saying never again? Seems that Israel has to take the toughest course to protect its own. If Hamas don’t, or can’t back down, then they must take the consequences

Do you not think the people of Gaza have kin? Do you really in all conscience that the actions of the Israeli Government is justified on any level - wiping out thousand of innocent people - men, women and children, the old, the young, the unborn, the aid workers, destroying their hospitals, schools, infrastructure, their homes and even their makeshift shelters? Have you looked at the death toll, the destruction as seen from the air and seen the land grabs by Israeli ‘settlers’ and listened to the intent of Netanyahu to take over the whole of Gaza?
You think these are justified consequences on a whole population because of Hamas?
You do realise Netenyahu is a war criminal don’t you - wanted for crimes against humanity? You do realise we are witnessing genocide don’t you?

How many times would you be willing for your kin to be wiped out before saying never again? Seems that Israel has to take the toughest course to protect its own. If Hamas don’t, or can’t back down, then they must take the consequences.

Yes it does sound familiar Wyllow.

mumofmadboys

I find it so incredibly shocking that Israel can commit such genocide after the events of the Holocaust. Do they not see the similarities?

Thats what I felt inside all along since some regimes in Israel started just taking territory from the Palestinians.

I was 16 ish, it was the 1967 6 day war.

Before the I held the beliefs mum and dad had always told me about the holocaust and they had helped settlers who had fled Hitler, settle in the UK.

Dad has also fought in the Cable Street battle in the East end as a leftie with Jewish Citizens against Fascism.

Then I heard that some Israelis were beginning to do what was done to them,.

Naively I was deeply shocked
. How could they!!!

The 6 day war, for those interested

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=1967+6+day+war+Israel&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#vhid=LFk2Bg6ByfrcJM&vssid=_xFCSaJH3K96qhbIP75Dg2AQ_52

then it just got worse now they are starving people deliberately and destroying anywhere to live..mvoing them away to ghettos

Sound familiar?

Oreo

They are not wanting to actually kill every Palestinian and are not actually doing it, where do you get that nonsense from?
There are two million Gazans .
The right wing faction in the Knesset are not the whole government nor are they all the Israeli people.
They have just been knocked back for mooting taking over the whole of Gaza as a military zone for a start.

My postwas in replyto Phil's post ''I would suspect that the majority of people who are anti Israel, don't know the history of the area, have never read the Quran, never really read or listened to these Islamic leaders,never done any proper research regarding Islam and the way you are supposedto treat non muslims and those who are critical of their faith.''

several of us have posted videos of Zionists and senior Israeli Governement Ministers saying just that, that they want to kill all- and Netanyahu has also used the Torah and the story of the Malekites for his dreadful aim. Most religious texts can be used to diabolise the enemy and condone the most cruel of policies, including genocide.

The Crusades were a very early version of Christianity wanting to erase Islam and all Muslims off the face of the earth.

That is not entirely true - a number of Israeli government members have said that they want to kill all people in Gaza, so unfortunately snd tragically it is not nonsense.

The right wing are certainly not the whole government, but they are pulling Netanyahu’s strings snd that is what counts.

They are not wanting to actually kill every Palestinian and are not actually doing it, where do you get that nonsense from?
There are two million Gazans .
The right wing faction in the Knesset are not the whole government nor are they all the Israeli people.
They have just been knocked back for mooting taking over the whole of Gaza as a military zone for a start.

It doesn't bear thinking about.

growstuff

I guess killing them all would solve the problem of doing something with 2 million displaced people.

Am afraid there are many who would want this to happen.
Israelis justification for genocide is that Palestinians just want to kill them all. The irony is that Israel actually wants to kill every Palestinian, but the difference is they are actually doing it, without hinderance or pause for breath.
Is taking national security to a whole new level, setting a dangerous precedent for other unscrupulous leaders looking to rid themselves of troublesome neighbours.

I guess killing them all would solve the problem of doing something with 2 million displaced people.