So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Have I said you should stop posting Oreo? No I haven't and show me where any of my posts are an attempt to chase you off this thread.

When you're unable too, perhaps you could withdraw your false allegations.

Oreo

growstuff

Oreo

That’s because you haven’t copied their letters Wyllow3 as you have with the one on the previous page.
A Muslim Asian MP who is a member of Labour Friends Of Palestine ( not a newly set up group btw) is always going to be totally one sided on this issue.There isn’t a single mention in the letter of what happened on October 7th 2023 nor a single message about the hostages.
It isn’t rocket science to see that this particular MP is biased.
There are other MP’s of course who are concerned about the Gaza situation as many people are.They just might have mentioned the atrocities by hamas and the need to release the last living Israeli hostages.

This is one of the most bigoted posts I have read on GN. Abtisam Mohamed was born in Yemen - in Aden - and came to the UK as a young child.

As I'm sure you're aware, Yemen has been in a permanent state of civil unrest since 1967, when the UK formally gave up the protectorate.

My daughter's MiL is Yemeni. Her parents came to the UK to escape what my MiL calls "Muslim terrorism". Do not assume that all Muslims have the same views or sympathies, just as not everybody in any group is the same. Muslims are as capable of being objective as anybody else.

I had never heard of Abtisam Mohamed before this thread, but to assume that she is biased, based on her name and ethnic origin, is blatant bigotry - and shows the posters up for what they are.

Well you’re pretty biased yourself as you say you have Yemeni in laws.
The letter by Ab Mohamed is entirely biased to Palestine.
No mention of atrocities committed by Gazans in Israel or of the hostages.Read it in its entirety.
The letter is as totally biased as it could be, and I don’t let fake calls of racism or bigotry bother me as all I see from a few posters that they are naive on this subject.

No, I'm not biased towards Muslims, Arabs or Palestinians. I have my own brain and I use it. I have no time for tribalism. If you'd read a little more carefully, you would have realised that my daughter's MiL has no time for Muslim terrorists. My MiL's parents left Yemen at about the same time as Abtisam Mohamed's parents did. If you'd done some homework, you would know that they cam from Aden. There were at least three different power groups in the newly independent Yemen. Many of those in Aden were persecuted by the extremists in the North, which is why they don't unconditionally support extreme groups such as Hamas. The point is that Ms Mohamed's opinion was rejected out-of-hand by bigots.

Smileless2012

^Well you're pretty biased yourself as you say you have Yemeni in laws^ this response to growstuff merely demonstrates your own bias Oreo.

When you find yourself in a hole, it really is advisable to stop digging.

What hole? You mean because I don’t agree with you or other posters that I should stop any comments? Want to chase me off the thread hey?

Apology to growstuff my comment was to Claremont
The nested quotes are often confusing.

Well you're pretty biased yourself as you say you have Yemeni in laws this response to growstuff merely demonstrates your own bias Oreo.

When you find yourself in a hole, it really is advisable to stop digging.

As has yours too growstuff

growstuff

Mamie

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Ronib have you understood the historical consequences of Sykes Picot and Balfour? I really don't understand how you can have an opinion without knowledge of what happened after the First World War and the end of the Ottoman Empire.

It started before the First World War at the end of the 19th century.

ronib don’t allow all these going back into the past diatribes about the State of Israel put you off, they’re designed to do just that.
We are where we are and your above point is completely valid, they just don’t want to concede it.
Israel don’t have a choice but to rid Gaza of as many hamas as possible and this is entirely the fault of the hamas government in Gaza.

Oreo

growstuff

Oreo

That’s because you haven’t copied their letters Wyllow3 as you have with the one on the previous page.
A Muslim Asian MP who is a member of Labour Friends Of Palestine ( not a newly set up group btw) is always going to be totally one sided on this issue.There isn’t a single mention in the letter of what happened on October 7th 2023 nor a single message about the hostages.
It isn’t rocket science to see that this particular MP is biased.
There are other MP’s of course who are concerned about the Gaza situation as many people are.They just might have mentioned the atrocities by hamas and the need to release the last living Israeli hostages.

This is one of the most bigoted posts I have read on GN. Abtisam Mohamed was born in Yemen - in Aden - and came to the UK as a young child.

As I'm sure you're aware, Yemen has been in a permanent state of civil unrest since 1967, when the UK formally gave up the protectorate.

My daughter's MiL is Yemeni. Her parents came to the UK to escape what my MiL calls "Muslim terrorism". Do not assume that all Muslims have the same views or sympathies, just as not everybody in any group is the same. Muslims are as capable of being objective as anybody else.

I had never heard of Abtisam Mohamed before this thread, but to assume that she is biased, based on her name and ethnic origin, is blatant bigotry - and shows the posters up for what they are.

Well you’re pretty biased yourself as you say you have Yemeni in laws.
The letter by Ab Mohamed is entirely biased to Palestine.
No mention of atrocities committed by Gazans in Israel or of the hostages.Read it in its entirety.
The letter is as totally biased as it could be, and I don’t let fake calls of racism or bigotry bother me as all I see from a few posters that they are naive on this subject.

Your massive bias has always been clear Oreo.

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Ths comment is just incredible and shows no understanding at all of the historical context.

This is exactly what happened, Israel was given a large part of Palestine to take over- stolen from the Palestinians. And it was clear from then on that the take over of the whole land, first of all piece by piece, by violent illegal settlers protected by the IDF, again and again, over a long period of time. And the local population kept behind massive fences in 'ghettos'.

growstuff

Oreo

That’s because you haven’t copied their letters Wyllow3 as you have with the one on the previous page.
A Muslim Asian MP who is a member of Labour Friends Of Palestine ( not a newly set up group btw) is always going to be totally one sided on this issue.There isn’t a single mention in the letter of what happened on October 7th 2023 nor a single message about the hostages.
It isn’t rocket science to see that this particular MP is biased.
There are other MP’s of course who are concerned about the Gaza situation as many people are.They just might have mentioned the atrocities by hamas and the need to release the last living Israeli hostages.

This is one of the most bigoted posts I have read on GN. Abtisam Mohamed was born in Yemen - in Aden - and came to the UK as a young child.

As I'm sure you're aware, Yemen has been in a permanent state of civil unrest since 1967, when the UK formally gave up the protectorate.

My daughter's MiL is Yemeni. Her parents came to the UK to escape what my MiL calls "Muslim terrorism". Do not assume that all Muslims have the same views or sympathies, just as not everybody in any group is the same. Muslims are as capable of being objective as anybody else.

I had never heard of Abtisam Mohamed before this thread, but to assume that she is biased, based on her name and ethnic origin, is blatant bigotry - and shows the posters up for what they are.

Well you’re pretty biased yourself as you say you have Yemeni in laws.
The letter by Ab Mohamed is entirely biased to Palestine.
No mention of atrocities committed by Gazans in Israel or of the hostages.Read it in its entirety.
The letter is as totally biased as it could be, and I don’t let fake calls of racism or bigotry bother me as all I see from a few posters that they are naive on this subject.

growstuff

Mamie

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Ronib have you understood the historical consequences of Sykes Picot and Balfour? I really don't understand how you can have an opinion without knowledge of what happened after the First World War and the end of the Ottoman Empire.

It started before the First World War at the end of the 19th century.

Indeed, but the Balfour declaration has huge historical importance concerning the State of Israel.

Mamie

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Ronib have you understood the historical consequences of Sykes Picot and Balfour? I really don't understand how you can have an opinion without knowledge of what happened after the First World War and the end of the Ottoman Empire.

It started before the First World War at the end of the 19th century.

path not Parth in first para above.

Having been part of the Gaza discussions from the very beginning, which went into detail on the history of how the situation was created in the first place by not giving Palestine statehood, the Nabka where so many Arabs were expelled from Israel, tracing the Parth regimes in Israel took of gradually occupying Gaza and the West Bank from early on, resulting in the conflicts around 1967, the results of the then regime in Israels aggression,

which is the point at which, very slowly, Hamas was born, initially a mostly political movement, then gaining political power in the elections of 2006:

But as oppression increased and the Israeli regime got more right wing and oppressive in a whole number of ways, Hamas eventually turned to terrorism.

this can never excuse

but it can explain

So having contributed with many others here today on these discussions, I fail to see how people now can defend the current regime.

The immediate one line and follow up responses to my posting that letter says it all, despite the threads understanding the past

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Hamas would not be the elected government of Scotland, but an invading force. Hamas has not threatened any Jewish people living in Gaza, so the situation is very different.

If England were to be threatened by Scots, I would build a huge wall from coast to coast and defend it.

Don't forget that Zionists threatened Palestine, Lebanon, parts of Saudi, Egypt and Jordan over 100 years ago and some of the extremists are still making the same threats.

Bigotry is a short step to racism. P

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Ronib have you understood the historical consequences of Sykes Picot and Balfour? I really don't understand how you can have an opinion without knowledge of what happened after the First World War and the end of the Ottoman Empire.

ronib

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

There will never be peace until Israel gives up its expansionist ambitions. Herzl talked of a Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates.

to assume that she is biased, based on her name and ethnic origin, is blatant bigotry - and shows the posters up for what they are well said Wyllow.

Growstuff have you checked out the list of parliamentary questions asked by Abitsam Mohamed?

What choice does Israel have? Hamas is so embedded in Gaza that there will never be peace until they are gone.
Can you imagine if Hamas had taken over in Scotland for example and then declared its intention to kill all English people? What would a proportionate response be?

Indeed.

My point above that people who either tend to support the current regime in Israel or tend towards a more pro-palestinian POV -

well, we've seen it in the discussions in Gransnet, havent we

- need more proof?!!!!

(But do go to her website folks as per my post on the last page - it offers the fullest details possible, she’s one of the good/uns)

abtisammohamed.com

Oreo

That’s because you haven’t copied their letters Wyllow3 as you have with the one on the previous page.
A Muslim Asian MP who is a member of Labour Friends Of Palestine ( not a newly set up group btw) is always going to be totally one sided on this issue.There isn’t a single mention in the letter of what happened on October 7th 2023 nor a single message about the hostages.
It isn’t rocket science to see that this particular MP is biased.
There are other MP’s of course who are concerned about the Gaza situation as many people are.They just might have mentioned the atrocities by hamas and the need to release the last living Israeli hostages.

This is one of the most bigoted posts I have read on GN. Abtisam Mohamed was born in Yemen - in Aden - and came to the UK as a young child.

As I'm sure you're aware, Yemen has been in a permanent state of civil unrest since 1967, when the UK formally gave up the protectorate.

My daughter's MiL is Yemeni. Her parents came to the UK to escape what my MiL calls "Muslim terrorism". Do not assume that all Muslims have the same views or sympathies, just as not everybody in any group is the same. Muslims are as capable of being objective as anybody else.

I had never heard of Abtisam Mohamed before this thread, but to assume that she is biased, based on her name and ethnic origin, is blatant bigotry - and shows the posters up for what they are.

And the Labour Friends of Israel?

Israel must be stopped - its expansionist policies seems to guarantee violence in that poor benighted region for decades to come. P

Wyllow3

Well it was her surname, silverlining that tripped me up, as Mohamed is a popular boys' name, in fact the most popular boys and mens name, meaning "praiseworthy" and is a variant spelling of the name Muhammad,

Oreo I just feel that if people keep talking about sides as you have, then we are seriously on the road to failing to make a solution work.

Its far, far more complex than that: as people have shades of opinion as to the whole range of associated issues.

Talking about "sides" just polarises our discussions and is the *road least likely to peace on both the small and large scale imo*

Mohamed (or one of its variant spellings) can be a girl's name too.