So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

Something like 2/3rds or more UN member states recognise a Palestinian state.

Israel is doing its best to ensure there is no Palestinian state to recognise.

It cares nothing for world opinion as long as GOP continues to support it, but that is not quite so certain as it once was.

Starvation is not something most people want to be associated with.

I expected a very low number disagreeing , the newspapers been shouting for it,

I'm constantly being told that few people read newspapers these days. They must be getting their information from elsewhere...

Quote MaizieD Sat 02-Aug-25 12:21:00
Oh, the image won't appear. Is it being moderated?

If it doesn't appear at all I'll ask the mods to remove the post

It’s ok, thank you Maizie

Quote MaizieD Sat 02-Aug-25 12:19:08
User post image
Whatever Gnetters might think of Starmer's decision it appears that only 14% of Britons don't agree with it

I expected a very low number disagreeing , the newspapers been shouting for it, MP’s inundated with demands to vote for it, some cabinet members demanded it , seems Starmer had little choice

Oh, the image won't appear. Is it being moderated?

If it doesn't appear at all I'll ask the mods to remove the post

Whatever Gnetters might think of Starmer's decision it appears that only 14% of Britons don't agree with it

Somebody else has to offer Gazans something better. A constitution which combines the West Bank and Gaza wouldn't give Gaza a majority. Somebody whom all Palestinians can trust is desperately needed. It's in other countries' best interests (including Israel's) to support a united Palestinian government.

Quote growstuff Sat 02-Aug-25 11:31:38
Anniebach
Quote Grantanow Sat 02-Aug-25 09:07:55
It's a blunder. It gives Hamas no incentive to release hostages and go quietly.

I agree, they have power to control Gaza
Thinking that Hamas will give up hostages and just go quietly is unrealistic. I fear their ideas will long outlive them and Israel is going to need robust protection for many years to come. The only way Hamas will be disempowered is if the Palestinians turn against them and the best way for that to happen is if they think somebody else will offer them something better.

What do those who object to recognition think should happen?

I do not object to recognition, I fear Hamas will stand again at an election and have much support, recognition achieved when Hamas is running Gaza
when
Hamas are in power

Oreo

I would sure hope so, but it will likely be even more stringent since October 7th 2023.

I would hope so too. There are still questions to be answered about what went wrong on that day. There are some allegations floating around from IDF soldiers, but I'm not 100% sure if they're genuine, so I'm not going to repeat them. I just hope that the truth comes out one day.

Anniebach

Quote Grantanow Sat 02-Aug-25 09:07:55
It's a blunder. It gives Hamas no incentive to release hostages and go quietly.

I agree, they have power to control Gaza

Thinking that Hamas will give up hostages and just go quietly is unrealistic. I fear their ideas will long outlive them and Israel is going to need robust protection for many years to come. The only way Hamas will be disempowered is if the Palestinians turn against them and the best way for that to happen is if they think somebody else will offer them something better.

What do those who object to recognition think should happen?

You are right Eloethan but it is only now that more people are taking an interest and learning about the past history of the region. When I said I supported Palestine even 5 years ago I was met with astonished silence because like USA still, most people were by default, with Israel despite the regular killing, land grabbing and bombing of Palestine not only over recent years but for nearly 80 years.

I would sure hope so, but it will likely be even more stringent since October 7th 2023.

Oreo

growstuff

Humbertbear

He obviously hasn’t realised that Hamas will kill his children if they have the chance. I wonder if Lady Starmer has made him sleep on the couch and are his in-laws still talking to him?

Why would Hamas want to kill Starmer's children?

Because they are Jewish.
Luckily they will have round the clock protection from any Muslim extremists here.

I would imagine they'd have protection anyway.

Iam64

I went to the hustings when Starmer was a leadership candidate. He spoke about his politics but also about his family. He referred to his wife being Jewish, as most people know, the children of Jewish mothers are Jewish. He said he tries not to work on Friday evening so he can join his wife, her parents and their children to celebrate.
The ‘left’ whoever we think they are, have always opposed Starmer’s leadership. One key reason being Palestine. I was sent a meme before his statement on recognising Palestine which stated Starmer being Jewish meant he’d always toady to Israel. That led to me ending a long standing friendship.

It’s certain this subject is being discussed in the Starmer family as it is in mine and on gransnet.

Thanks for that post Iam64. I suspect his Jewish links were to placate those in the Labour Party who accused Corbyn of antisemitism.

Far too little, far too late. Where have these countries been all these years when Palestinian people were being treated so badly? It was just empty words then too - and, unless they come up with a plan to re-build Gaza, it is just a cynical move to cover their backs.

I went to the hustings when Starmer was a leadership candidate. He spoke about his politics but also about his family. He referred to his wife being Jewish, as most people know, the children of Jewish mothers are Jewish. He said he tries not to work on Friday evening so he can join his wife, her parents and their children to celebrate.
The ‘left’ whoever we think they are, have always opposed Starmer’s leadership. One key reason being Palestine. I was sent a meme before his statement on recognising Palestine which stated Starmer being Jewish meant he’d always toady to Israel. That led to me ending a long standing friendship.

It’s certain this subject is being discussed in the Starmer family as it is in mine and on gransnet.

growstuff

Humbertbear

He obviously hasn’t realised that Hamas will kill his children if they have the chance. I wonder if Lady Starmer has made him sleep on the couch and are his in-laws still talking to him?

Why would Hamas want to kill Starmer's children?

Because they are Jewish.
Luckily they will have round the clock protection from any Muslim extremists here.

Quote Grantanow Sat 02-Aug-25 09:07:55
It's a blunder. It gives Hamas no incentive to release hostages and go quietly.

I agree, they have power to control Gaza

David49

Babs03

The reason western leaders are recognising the a Palestinian state is to put pressure on Netanyahu to desist in his attempts to wipe out the Palestinian people using any heinous means possible, in the absence of a a politically intelligent US leader who can deal with this in an effective manner.

No it isn’t it’s a sop to calm pro Palestinian groups at home so they can be seen to do something.
Netanyahu will take no notice at all and Hamas will feel emboldened. The only influence will come from the US who are dealing with Tariffs and Ukraine as well, if the US tells Israel to have a ceasefire they will have no choice.

Regrettably an escalation in Ukraine will probably take priority.

David49 is correct in my opinion.

It's a blunder. It gives Hamas no incentive to release hostages and go quietly.

Babs03

The reason western leaders are recognising the a Palestinian state is to put pressure on Netanyahu to desist in his attempts to wipe out the Palestinian people using any heinous means possible, in the absence of a a politically intelligent US leader who can deal with this in an effective manner.

No it isn’t it’s a sop to calm pro Palestinian groups at home so they can be seen to do something.
Netanyahu will take no notice at all and Hamas will feel emboldened. The only influence will come from the US who are dealing with Tariffs and Ukraine as well, if the US tells Israel to have a ceasefire they will have no choice.

Regrettably an escalation in Ukraine will probably take priority.

It is hard to know what to do when faced with the likes of Smotrich and Katz

"Next to Katz was the ultra-nationalist leader Bezalel Smotrich, who lives in a settlement in the West Bank and believes that the land was given to the Jews by God. He is finance minister but also is effectively the governor of the West Bank with sweeping powers over planning.
Smotrich called the settlement expansion a "once-in-a-generation decision" and declared: "Next step sovereignty!"
Everyone in Israel, and the Palestinians in the territories, know that when Smotrich and his allies say "sovereignty" they mean annexation.
Smotrich wants all the land for Jews and has openly discussed finding ways of removing Palestinians.

How can we stop this Shinamae?

How is Starmer any different - weaker", from other Western Powers" exactly in this respect? you cant surely believe *Fromage can do better?

None yet, are marching in,

Allsorts

The only reason I can think of for Starmer dragging his feet, although thats how he got the reputation for sitting on the fence until he knew for certain the winning side, is because of his wife and her family.
Of course Palestine should be a State, if enough countries put their weight behind it, it will happen. What Israel is doing is
genocide that the world is watching. How dare they starve people to a slow and painful death, shoot them going to fetch aid, it’s despicable. Shame on them.

Not so sure it's about his wife and family Allsorts. As you say, Starmer doesn't act impulsively (mild overstatement ). I'm not his confidante, so don't have any real idea how his mind works, but I think he will have been watching the mood of the country.

Like most people, I was horrified at what Hamas did on 7 October. I just couldn't imagine what suffering the families of the people who were murdered and kidnapped were going through. I'm aware of the propaganda Hamas has used, just as I'm aware of the Propaganda Israel has used, so have tried to be objective.

I think Israel has now gone too far. Of course it has the right to defend its borders against hostile neighbours (that's why the US has donated so much for the Iron Dome and other weapons. However, forcibly grabbing land in the West Bank and limiting necessary aid to Gaza is going too far and I think the tide of public opinion (including globally) has changed. People who do not have a reputation for being pro-Palestinian are speaking out and Starmer has responded to that. A solution has to be found for the sake of everybody, including the hostages and the state of Israel itself.

The only reason I can think of for Starmer dragging his feet, although thats how he got the reputation for sitting on the fence until he knew for certain the winning side, is because of his wife and her family.
Of course Palestine should be a State, if enough countries put their weight behind it, it will happen. What Israel is doing is
genocide that the world is watching. How dare they starve people to a slow and painful death, shoot them going to fetch aid, it’s despicable. Shame on them.

Babs03

The reason western leaders are recognising the a Palestinian state is to put pressure on Netanyahu to desist in his attempts to wipe out the Palestinian people using any heinous means possible, in the absence of a a politically intelligent US leader who can deal with this in an effective manner.

Exactly! It's a bargaining tool, which is why there are conditions attached to it.

Maybe somebody who disagrees with it can come up with another way out of the current impasse.