So what do GNs think of Starmer’s decision to recognise Palestine as a state?

As far as you are aware, exactly that, as I doubt the government and IDF are going to email you about it.
Hamas are definitely not just a tin pot terrorist group at all, their leaders ran things smoothly and very ably in their own twisted way.
Thousands and thousands will now be dead of course and just counted in with civilian deaths by the hamas health ministry.

Oh I have absolutely no truck whatsoever with Hamas. But they are a tin pot terrorist unit that Israel has vast and excellent experience in fighting these sorts of groups.

They dealt with absolute precision with Hezbollah, a much bigger and more professional group tha Hamas has ever been. And have carried out similar exercise over many years, with other groups, Israel has never had a problem dealing with these, but strangely they seem to be utterly useless in dealing with Hamas. They have only ever publish one set of figures of dead Hamas, have never said how many they think there are left and don’t appear to have any success at all in the past few months. Frankly from such a professional army - I don’t believe it.

So the hostages languish in Hamas gaols whilst Israel fiddles around clearing the. North of Gaza for settlers to move in and as far as I am aware haven’t found a single hostage in months.

What on earth has happened to such professional army?

Look, whatever you say to excuse hamas, there is no excuse!
They ran Gaza increasingly badly, spent money, shedloads of it on arms and tunnels and capped it off with a murderous spree in Israel.They were underestimated in their desire to kill Jews.

Blame hamas for that then.

Oreo

Israel funded them in the hope that running Gaza would satisfy them and stop the problems from the PA.It didn’t work and they became worse than the PA.
So no more extremists running Gaza for the future that’s for sure.

No that is wrong. Netanyahu did not want what he thought of as an overmighty PA.

It is divide and rule.

And no they haven’t controlled their coastline for years. Fishermen were only allowed so far out to sea, and nowhere near the fishing grounds. Now they are forbidden to even paddle in the sea.

Israel funded them in the hope that running Gaza would satisfy them and stop the problems from the PA.It didn’t work and they became worse than the PA.
So no more extremists running Gaza for the future that’s for sure.

MayBee70

So the Palestinians were forcibly removed from their own country and moved to Gaza?

Palestinians have been forcibly removed from their legally held home/land by settlers since 1948 at least. Many have been forced to become refugees and are living in rotten conditions in Jordan and Lebanon.

It continues until today.

I suspect that people in the Israeli government are hoping that this is the final push.

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Oreo

Gaza had its own governments, the latest one being hamas.
That went well didn’t it?
Gaza has had so much money and aid pumped into it that a good government there could have made it so much better.
The government of Gaza chose to enter its neighbour country and murder over a thousand people and take over two hundred hostages back with them.
Recognition right now is a travesty.

If Netanyahu hadn’t interfered Hamas would not have got into power.

An israeli spokesperson admitted that was so on a podcast and said it was a mistake!

Some mistake when Netanyahu was ensuring that Hamas was fully funded.

So?
Hamas was funded in the hope it would become a reasonable government in Gaza.
Fat chance, but hope springs eternal.

That is so wrong

Hamas was funded by Netanyahu because he had no intention of allowing the PA become the de facto government for the West Bank and Gaza.

He allowed Iran to arm Hamas and he in turn funded them.

"Who governs and who controls it?
Hamas, which has clashed repeatedly with the Palestinian leaders in the West Bank who negotiated the Oslo Peace Accords, is a militant Palestinian nationalist movement currently led by Ismail Haniyeh. It took control of Gaza after it won elections there in 2006. Since then, no elections have been held."

"Despite pleas from the United Nations and human rights groups, Israel has maintained a land, air and sea blockade on Gaza since 2007 that has had a devastating effect on Palestinian civilians. Israel says the blockade, which gives it control of Gaza's borders and is also enforced by Egypt, is necessary to protect Israeli citizens from Hamas."
So they don't even control their own coastline?

MayBee70

So the Palestinians were forcibly removed from their own country and moved to Gaza?

Many of them, yes. By the end of the 1948 Palestine war, 25% of Mandatory Palestine's Arab population was in Gaza, though the Strip constituted only 1% of the land.

I find it so incredibly shocking that Israel can commit such genocide after the events of the Holocaust. Do they not see the similarities?

So Israel doesn't regard Gaza as a state therefore nobody else can?

Whitewavemark2

Oreo

Gaza had its own governments, the latest one being hamas.
That went well didn’t it?
Gaza has had so much money and aid pumped into it that a good government there could have made it so much better.
The government of Gaza chose to enter its neighbour country and murder over a thousand people and take over two hundred hostages back with them.
Recognition right now is a travesty.

If Netanyahu hadn’t interfered Hamas would not have got into power.

An israeli spokesperson admitted that was so on a podcast and said it was a mistake!

Some mistake when Netanyahu was ensuring that Hamas was fully funded.

So?
Hamas was funded in the hope it would become a reasonable government in Gaza.
Fat chance, but hope springs eternal.

MayBee70

I don't really understand it. If Gaza isn't a 'state' then what is it? It must be something. If so, what??

It's diplomatic. West Germany didn't recognise East Germany as a state or recognise the border between East Germany and Poland from 1945 until 1972, yet East Germany quite clearly was there and existed.

So the Palestinians were forcibly removed from their own country and moved to Gaza?

MayBee70

I don't really understand it. If Gaza isn't a 'state' then what is it? It must be something. If so, what??

It is an occupied territory - the occupiers being Israel.

Occupied territories come with responsibilities which includes not grabbing land from the people living there, and ensuring that they are cared for. The occupiers have a duty of care.

Israel has failed on every front. Imo they have forfeited any claim whatsoever to Palestine.

Oreo

Gaza had its own governments, the latest one being hamas.
That went well didn’t it?
Gaza has had so much money and aid pumped into it that a good government there could have made it so much better.
The government of Gaza chose to enter its neighbour country and murder over a thousand people and take over two hundred hostages back with them.
Recognition right now is a travesty.

If Netanyahu hadn’t interfered Hamas would not have got into power.

An israeli spokesperson admitted that was so on a podcast and said it was a mistake!

Some mistake when Netanyahu was ensuring that Hamas was fully funded.

I don't really understand it. If Gaza isn't a 'state' then what is it? It must be something. If so, what??

Once all the Israeli hostages are returned to their families and free elections are allowed, can there be any movement towards the state of Palestine surely?

Well said StoneofDestiny.

It's part of a wider agreement. The Palestine Authority is leading the negotiations for Palestine.

Gaza had its own governments, the latest one being hamas.
That went well didn’t it?
Gaza has had so much money and aid pumped into it that a good government there could have made it so much better.
The government of Gaza chose to enter its neighbour country and murder over a thousand people and take over two hundred hostages back with them.
Recognition right now is a travesty.

It's long overdue to recognise Palestine as a state. The people of Palestine are human beings who deserve a homeland, their own government and the right to determine their own future. It should come without conditions. Yes, there are terrorists in Gaza, but there are terrorists in Israel and in the UK.
So much has been taken from the people of Gaza while the world watches.
People need to remember we pushed Germany so hard after WW1 that it led to WW2. We need to stop creating a situation where people feel their only comeback against being pushed hard is to resort to violence

As you say, it hasn’t happened yet and I sincerely hope that it won’t.
Starmer has been forced into this by his own MP’s and backers and being more of a manager than a leader, has caved in to pressure.
I know it’s mainly symbolic, but symbolism still means something in the world.
A hamas official said joyfully yesterday that ‘victory will be ours sooner than we thought’.
The useful idiots are helping us, he may just as well have added.
To those who think Starmer is a better friend to Jews than Corbyn, my answer is ‘only just!’