Lucy Letby

Years ago, I took a post as an auxiliary nurse at a local hospital. I was totally untrained (told at the interview that I would be trained on the job). I was also told that I would basically only be an assistant to the nurses and would be doing whatever they needed me to do, otherwise just observing.
My first ever shift was a night shift. I was put in a room where a little boy of 3 was sleeping. He had croup and a high temperature and his cot had been placed under an open window. This was November but he had nothing on but a nappy. I was supposed to be supervised but the nurse I was attached to took herself off to the airing cupboard and slept the night through! I had no idea what to do, and just sat terrified with my eyes glued to the baby so I could (hopefully) see if he got worse.
I gave my notice in the next day. If the same thing happened today, I would obviously complain but this was back in the 70s and things were very different then.
Since then, I have had many dealings with that same hospital, especially recently since getting various illnesses compounded by old age. The hospital is now very good indeed and has come a long way. It’s a pleasure to be treated there now, (as much as any treatment can be a pleasure!)

Fartooold

Ex (old) NICU nurse things do not add up, standing there doing nothing when a baby’s alarm going off. In my day the baby would be on the resuscitation unit. I think she is guilty or totally inexperienced, which in that case why was she left alone with such sick babies with no competent staff around! Too many babies died.

I agree things don’t add up. I think total inexperience wouldn’t lead to severe liver damage, or to babies having extremely low blood sugar levels even while they were being given glucose to bring the levels up. It wouldn’t lead to their blood test results later showing that insulin had been administered to them.

Lucy Letby admitted at trial that the babies had been given insulin. She just said she hadn’t given it to them.

sharon103

Sorry the link's not working but can be copied and pasted on Google.

I think there's something mentally wrong with her.
She seems strange to me. When she was arrested she was calm.
There's only one person who will ever know if Lucy Letby is innocent or guilty and that's her.

The jury did feel they had enough of an idea of whether she was guilty, based on the evidence they heard, to convict her of 7 murders and 7 attempted murders. Later a second jury convicted her of another attempted murder.

Even from knowing some of that evidence – the trial took 10 months so there was a lot of it – I think people can form a fair idea.

Sometimes people feel doubtful about the conviction based on questions they have seen raised in newspaper articles and on social media. But they don’t know about the answers given in court already, and about the whole of the evidence.

Ex (old) NICU nurse things do not add up, standing there doing nothing when a baby’s alarm going off. In my day the baby would be on the resuscitation unit. I think she is guilty or totally inexperienced, which in that case why was she left alone with such sick babies with no competent staff around! Too many babies died.

Kamiso

I think she was made a scapegoat because she is quiet and not likely to make a fuss.

The only people who could possibly have scapegoated her were the hospital doctors and the hospital managers. (The hospital nurses did not speak up either to accuse or defend her.)

We know that the doctors gained nothing from suspecting her and eventually accusing her of deliberately harming babies. They were given a terrible time by the managers and even threatened with losing their jobs.

As for the managers: this is from an earlier post.

//You’re saying that the hospital managers knowingly falsely accused LL of murder to cover up the high death rate in the neonatal unit? But:

a) They only did this after years of opposing the doctors who suspected her, to the point of threatening them with losing their jobs if they continued to speak out. (This is when they forced them to apologise to LL.) It wasn’t until it became too obvious that she was linked to the deaths that they reluctantly acted, and even then they didn’t go to the police, they took her off the ward and put her in the risk and patient safety office. It was the doctors who kept pressing for the police to be involved.

b) Don’t you think it’s more embarrassing to be a manager who let a serial killer run amok among newborn babies rather than a manager who was incompetent in less dramatic ways?

c) I really can’t see a team of managers keeping that conspiracy going for years without any of them cracking.//

How likely is it, really, that she was scapegoated?

It’s also true, as Iam64 has pointed out, that she made a major fuss when she was moved off the ward and not put back there after a few months. Even her father made a major fuss.

Yes well said Skye17 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Indeed she did, Iam64. She is definitely not quiet.

She ‘made a fuss’ when concerns led to her being moved at work. Such a fuss that the doctors who raised concerns were made to write letters of apology. Resistance comes in all noises

Sparklefizz

Skydancer

I don’t know but I do know that if I was accused of something, especially this serious, I’d be shouting my innocence from the rooftops whereas she is very quiet.

Yes. I agree with you.

I think she was made a scapegoat because she is quiet and not likely to make a fuss.

Well thank goodness there are no executions carried out in the UK these days. I do think the jury were careful with the evidence they were given to process which led to her being found guilty. If more evidence has come to light then there probably should be a retrial. If.

Sorry the link's not working but can be copied and pasted on Google.

I think there's something mentally wrong with her.
She seems strange to me. When she was arrested she was calm.
There's only one person who will ever know if Lucy Letby is innocent or guilty and that's her.

news.sky.com/story/the-evidence-seen-during-lucy-letbys-murder-trial-from-handwritten-notes-to-cards-for-parents-12944606

This is what I think is strange. The hand wriiten notes and hospital documents found in her bedroom.

news.sky.com/story/the-evidence-seen-during-lucy-letbys-murder-trial-from-handwritten-notes-to-cards-for-parents-12944606

Yes, I recall that case, icanhandthemback. I put my faith in the jurors, and the doctors who worked with this woman.

I am minded of a case I read about where a man was hanged because he was found guilty of killing a couple, his name was James Hanratty. There was apparently a witness who had seen him at the time of the killing miles away and the family put up a fight to clear his name. A subsequent enquiry by the police suggested his conviction was unsafe.

The book I read convinced me that he was innocent. Unfortunately, many years later they were able to extract DNA from crime scene evidence and it turned out he was as guilty as sin! It just goes to show you can't tell so I am making no judgement on the conviction of Lucy Letby.

Skye17 👍🏻

It’s difficult for us to accept doctors, nurses, residential sw, sports coaches, even celebrities can be hiding in plain sight and carrying out horrific abuse.
Yet, there they are

fancyflowers

I think Lucy is innocent. No, she didn't shout her innocence from the rooftops, but she was, by that time, extremely traumatized by the whole thing.
I believe that not enough credence has been given to the fact that consultants were forced to apologize to her. That must surely have rankled a lot, and possibly have them a reason to 'get back at her in some way. However, I don't for one minute suppose that they wanted her locked up for life.
I can easily believe that this is an NHS cover up. It wouldn't be the first time that an institution has covered up mis dealings.

1.
You are saying that the consultants wanted to get back at LL because they were forced to apologise to her? So then they accused her of harming babies to get back at her?

It was the other way round. First they thought she was deliberately harming babies and asked to have her removed from the ward, then they were forced to apologise to her.

The question is not, did they want to get back at her, but why did they suspect her of murder in the first place?

(If they thought she was a serial killer, they probably did want her locked up for life, after a fair trial of course.)

2.
You’re saying that the hospital managers knowingly falsely accused LL of murder to cover up the high death rate in the neonatal unit? But:

a) They only did this after years of opposing the doctors who suspected her, to the point of threatening them with losing their jobs if they continued to speak out. (This is when they forced them to apologise to LL.) It wasn’t until it became too obvious that she was linked to the deaths that they reluctantly acted, and even then they didn’t go to the police, they took her off the ward and put her in the risk and patient safety office. It was the doctors who kept pressing for the police to be involved.

b) Don’t you think it’s more embarrassing to be a manager who let a serial killer run amok among newborn babies rather than a manager who was incompetent in less dramatic ways?

c) I really can’t see a team of managers keeping that conspiracy going for years without any of them cracking.

The PP saying that Lucy Letby must have been innocent to be able to enjoy herself at a wedding while she was on remand was probably assuming she has normal emotions. But if she’s a psychopath (quite likely), she won’t.

If I was innocent and about to stand trial for murder, I’m not sure I’d enjoy myself at a wedding anyway. I think I’d be anxious about the outcome.

LL came across at the trial as having a very good opinion of herself. She may have expected to continue getting away with it as she had up to that point, in spite of the suspicions of some of her colleagues. The junior doctors used to call her the Angel of Death.

cries of

I agree too Iam she's been tried and convicted. My heart goes out to those poor heart broken parents who must be sick to death of the cried of 'she's innocent'.

I’m with Skye17 and Oreo. The investigation and trial were forensic. The jury sat through the evidence and reached conclusions
A poster upthread referred to Letby dancing, enjoying herself at an onnasion when on bail as proof she believed she’d be fiubd innocent. She is said to lack empathy.

I think Lucy is innocent. No, she didn't shout her innocence from the rooftops, but she was, by that time, extremely traumatized by the whole thing.
I believe that not enough credence has been given to the fact that consultants were forced to apologize to her. That must surely have rankled a lot, and possibly have them a reason to 'get back at her in some way. However, I don't for one minute suppose that they wanted her locked up for life.
I can easily believe that this is an NHS cover up. It wouldn't be the first time that an institution has covered up mis dealings.

No smoke without fire.

Thank you, Oreo.

Aveline

Over 50 experts have protested her innocence. Most of these are senior and more experienced than those listed above.

‘Professor’ and ‘Consultant’ are the top rungs of an academic/medical career. It doesn’t get more senior than that.

The prosecution experts look pretty experienced to me:

- Dr Andreas Marnerides, Consultant Pathologist. 10 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023 (the year that Lucy Letby’s first trial ended).
- Dr Owen Arthurs, Professor of Radiology. 10 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023.
- Dr Sally Kinsey, Professor of Haematology, specialising in paediatric haematology. Retired in 2023 so had had plenty of experience.
- Dr Peter Hindmarsh, Professor of Paediatric Endocrinology. 19 years’ experience as a professor.
- Dr Stavros Stivaros, Professor of Radiology. Can’t quickly find how long he has been a professor. Had been publishing research papers for 21 years in 2023.
- Dr Simon Kenny, Consultant Paediatrician. 20 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023.
- Dr Dewi Evans, Consultant Paediatrician. Was retired in 2023. Had had 29 years’ experience as a consultant.
- Dr Sandie Bohin, Consultant Paediatrician. 14 years’ experience as a consultant in 2023.

A few articles about press conferences held by Lucy Letby’s current barrister really don’t give the full picture. If you have a look at the book and Reddit forum I linked to above you might feel less certain. There is also a very good podcast called The Trial of Lucy Letby which gave an account of the trial as it progressed.

The experts you mentioned have only addressed the medical evidence, not the rest of the evidence. For example,

- the fact that LL falsified medical records
- the fact she was shown in court to have lied several times
- the fact that she hoarded handover sheets about her patients in her house
- the fact that she frequently searched Facebook for the babies’ parents (even on Christmas Day)
- the fact that deaths followed her from night shifts to day shifts and stopped when she went on holiday
- the fact that she was seen to be strangely excited after babies died

And that’s just some of it. She failed a placement during her degree due to lack of empathy. She came across very unconvincingly in court.

The views of the experts you mention are not necessarily correct. For example, one suggested that a baby could have inherited its mother’s genetic disorder, I think a blood clotting disorder. But this had already been looked into in court and it had been shown that the baby had not inherited the disorder. The experts did not read the court evidence, only the medical notes.

Another example:

//Among the debated claims, Letby's new defence team, headed by human rights barrister Mark McDonald, says Baby I, who died in October 2015, had a bacterial infection causing thick secretions which blocked an endotracheal tube.

But the families said testing indicated the child never developed the infection and the tube was not in place when they died.//
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14529241/Evidence-killer-nurse-Lucy-Letbys-defence-errors-families.html

Mark McDonald, the barrister, is good at generating hype, but less good at getting results. He makes a practice of advocating for convicted murderers, but so far none of them have been released.