Unfolding Genocide

Israel used to be able to say that it was the only democracy in the Middle East.

War is brutal, comparing any participant in war with Hamas ? really, rapes, sexually abuses children, strangles babies, locks people in rooms then set fire , takes hostages drives bodies of hostages through their large supporters who mock and cheer
No, unless you include Hitler army

AGAA4

"but you can't convince anyone that Hamas cares about those children"

Hamas are terrorists and life is cheap to them. They will die for glory. For the cause.
I doubt that many people believe that Hamas have finer feelings or western values. I would have thought that Israel would not be as brutal but have been proved wrong.

Agree.
Hamas is a terrorist group which means the rules of engagement in a war or the Geneva convention don’t apply. But Israel is a first world democracy with backing from other first world democracies so I would have expected them to abide by international laws with regard to hospitals, schools, etc.,and basically not killing everyone in sight including aid workers and journalists.
What Israel have resorted to is state sponsored terrorism.

Who has ever stated that Hamas cares? Who has ever stated that they care about Hamas?

Greta will be setting sail again. Bless her, for trying.

"but you can't convince anyone that Hamas cares about those children"

Hamas are terrorists and life is cheap to them. They will die for glory. For the cause.
I doubt that many people believe that Hamas have finer feelings or western values. I would have thought that Israel would not be as brutal but have been proved wrong.

MadameFeuveral I would say that if anybody is being patronising, it is you. Your assumption that everybody in the UK who is horrified by what is happening in Gaza are "comfortable, middle class types" is very presumptuous and rather rude. And referring to "the cuddly, warm, sentimental feelings she [a poster] expresses towards the people in Gaza" seeks to minimise and ridicule her feelings.

Certainly it appears the belief that it is wrong to bomb, shoot and starve civilians, including medical staff and journalists, is not shared by everyone - I think Israel's actions demonstrate that.

“Patronising to think most people think starving babies is wrong, to feel sympathy for children crippled and killed. I think it is insulting to pretend that only the west can feel that.”

I didn’t say that, did I? I didn’t say only the West could feel that way.

You can’t argue that your values and beliefs are universally shared by all human beings, because they’re quite obviously not. Even if you think they should be.

But you can’t convince anyone that Hamas really cares about those children either. Hamas should care more than anyone. But they don’t. Life is cheap and those children are just collateral damage to them.

MadameFeuveral

@theworriedwell

I was replying to a previous poster that the cuddly, warm, sentimental feelings she expresses towards the people in Gaza aren’t ones shared by Hamas. They don’t share her values. I didn’t claim Israel shared them either.

Comfortable, middle class types in the UK like to imagine that universal human rights and the values they hold dear are shared by everyone, of all cultures. They’re quite obviously not.

In fact, it’s rather an insulting, patronising way of thinking - that your values and beliefs are so good, how could they not positively be shared by everyone the world over? How could anyone think any differently to you? How could anyone value different things?

Well, they do.

Patronising to think most people think starving babies is wrong, to feel sympathy for children crippled and killed. I think it is insulting to pretend that only the west can feel that.

@theworriedwell

I was replying to a previous poster that the cuddly, warm, sentimental feelings she expresses towards the people in Gaza aren’t ones shared by Hamas. They don’t share her values. I didn’t claim Israel shared them either.

Comfortable, middle class types in the UK like to imagine that universal human rights and the values they hold dear are shared by everyone, of all cultures. They’re quite obviously not.

In fact, it’s rather an insulting, patronising way of thinking - that your values and beliefs are so good, how could they not positively be shared by everyone the world over? How could anyone think any differently to you? How could anyone value different things?

Well, they do.

MadameFeuveral

“How many people can watch babies starve and children crippled and murdered and not feel sympathy? Very few.”

Hamas don’t feel sympathy, obviously. However much they may claim to care about those suffering, they hate Israel more. The people you’re concerned about are just collateral damage. And you’re projecting Western values onto them which they don’t share.

Israel is supposed to have western values isn't it? Israel are bombing Gaza, they can't wipe their hands clean of this.

I was about to say similar Babs.

Well if Israel and the US are demonstrating western values God help the west.

“How many people can watch babies starve and children crippled and murdered and not feel sympathy? Very few.”

Hamas don’t feel sympathy, obviously. However much they may claim to care about those suffering, they hate Israel more. The people you’re concerned about are just collateral damage. And you’re projecting Western values onto them which they don’t share.

Hamas can , they carry out the crimes you speak of

Anniebach

Quote Babs03 Sat 30-Aug-25 18:10:08
Indeed Annie, and ironic to think that those words now apply not only to the long suffering Jews as you are at pains to point out but to Palestinians as well, whose suffering is routinely ignored, dismissed, or overlooked by those who can only see one side of the terrible situation in Gaza.

Not correct .The World is with the Palestinians , their government Hamas won the propaganda battle , certainly not with truth

The actions of Netanyahu and the IDF have handed the Gazans the sympathy of most of the world. Don't credit Hamas with that, look to who is responsible. How many people can watch babies starve and children crippled and murdered and not feel sympathy? Very few.

Quote Babs03 Sat 30-Aug-25 18:10:08
Indeed Annie, and ironic to think that those words now apply not only to the long suffering Jews as you are at pains to point out but to Palestinians as well, whose suffering is routinely ignored, dismissed, or overlooked by those who can only see one side of the terrible situation in Gaza.

Not correct .The World is with the Palestinians , their government Hamas won the propaganda battle , certainly not with truth

Anniebach

Yes Hamas terrorists who raped. Murdered , burned victims alive, not war crimes !!!!

No not a war crime Annie, at that point there was no war so it was a heinous terrorist atrocity.
And undoubtedly Hamas did totally monstrous things. But nobody is defending Hamas. But you are defending genocide against the Palestinians.

Yes, bombing hospitals, targetting medics children and jourbnalists. War crimes.

Yes Oreo, Gazans were not having a great life recently, but not only because of their government. The restrictions imposed on them by those in control in Israel, being walled up inside that very small area ,when they had been promised so much more in the treaty of 1948. All so conveniently forgotten.
But hey, they were having a much better life than what has been forced on them now, by Netanyahu's thugs.

Yes Hamas terrorists who raped. Murdered , burned victims alive, not war crimes !!!!

Going back a few pages, it was implied that all Gazans are to take the blame, and have lost their rights, because the Gazans elected Hamas.
Taking this to its logical conclusion, it must therefor be the case that all Israelis are to blame for Netanyahu's war crimes and genocide, because he is their elected leader.

Indeed Annie, and ironic to think that those words now apply not only to the long suffering Jews as you are at pains to point out but to Palestinians as well, whose suffering is routinely ignored, dismissed, or overlooked by those who can only see one side of the terrible situation in Gaza.

Yes Shylock, the Jewish moneylender , forced to become a Christian.
We also had Fagin, Svengali, Barabbuss , so many novels too,

Prick me, do I not bleed?" is a line from William Shakespeare's play The Merchant of Venice, specifically from a famous monologue delivered by the character Shylock in Act 3, Scene 1. The full quote asks rhetorical questions to highlight the shared humanity and common physical responses among all people, regardless of their religion or background.