Why do things keep getting worse?

cc

Allira

fancythat

There used to be a time when man went out to work and woman kept house and kids.
Nowadays, to have any decent standard of living, both people need to work. And often get topped up by benefits.

I know which time of life I prefered.

When was that?
I remember my mother working.
Not full-time, admittedly and she was usually there for me or I went work with her.

I do have friends who never went back to work after having a family but somehow manage to have a higher State Pension than me 🤔

Yes, my sister has a higher "new" pension than I do despite the fact that I went back to work once my children were at school. She never worked after she met her husband.

People I know must have had their stamp paid somehow! They are on the old SP.

Allira

fancythat

There used to be a time when man went out to work and woman kept house and kids.
Nowadays, to have any decent standard of living, both people need to work. And often get topped up by benefits.

I know which time of life I prefered.

When was that?
I remember my mother working.
Not full-time, admittedly and she was usually there for me or I went work with her.

I do have friends who never went back to work after having a family but somehow manage to have a higher State Pension than me 🤔

Yes, my sister has a higher "new" pension than I do despite the fact that I went back to work once my children were at school. She never worked after she met her husband.

Allira

cc

fancythat

Most people wont like what I am going to say and that is part of the problem in my opinion.

Bat tunnel - £100 million.

Many many other schemes like that. Too many to mention.
And the majority of people, on GN at least, thought it was perfectly acceptable.

If money is spent on this type of thing, not so much money left for other things.

I agree with you, my husband has worked on engineering projects where this sort of thing happened. Our local council spends money painting zebra crossings in rainbow colours - minor spending, but typical of the wasted money in our economy. Why do we spend so much on things that, in a perfect world, we'd like to do but realistically we can't afford to do it today.

They spend £millions on feasibility studies, often several, but never do the actual work!

The Clevedon seafront scheme is a case in point.

Work to remove wiggly road markings that sparked controversy in a seaside town has been completed.

North Somerset Council caused outrage in Clevedon when it introduced the changes, which included the removal of sea-facing parking, along the waterfront in 2022. RAC previously described the lines as one of the "most bizarre" road schemes it had seen.

It originally cost about £1m and a further £425,000 was spent on the reversal, but the council said the move was "in line with significant public feedback" from businesses and residents.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq54w75jd93o

This may not seem to be a huge amount of money - £1.5million - but it is large sum out of Council tax which could hae been put to better use on essential services.

Middle earners, not middle learners!

Babs, I don’t know why you think that things have been getting worse for the majority of people? Things probably have been getting worse for some people. But I think that is always the case in society.
The cafés, bars and restaurants in our town are full from Thursday to Sunday, all day and in the evening. The car parks of the supermarkets and retail parks are full everywhere I go. Roads are crammed, even on weekends and bank holiday holidays. If I want to go to a concert, theatre or even an exhibition at a major gallery I need to have booked it right at the beginning or everything will be completely sold out.
You can’t even give things away to charities etc these days, because there is more stuff around now than people can possibly use or need.

Yes, we do have food banks - I think there’s an old saying that ‘the poor are always with us’. Some of these are people who struggle to manage for all sorts of reasons, or experience temporary hardship. But I don’t know if there really are very many more people in this situation. Although it is true that there is greater inequality in the UK, and in the US, there has also been a massive global reduction in poverty. It’s the middle learners who seem to have lost the most, often because of significant changes in how work is structured, with the loss of ‘middle managers’.

Somebody commented here that some political factions have a vested interest in making people think that everything is terrible and the only they have the solution.
I’m personally always sceptical of people who claim that they have easy solutions to problems that we know are very difficult to tackle. If the solutions were easy, somebody would’ve found them by now.
I think it’s hard for both of us of a certain age to understand how the media operates these days - it’s really not based on providing news any longer. It’s all about getting the ‘clicks’ on social media, which is how they make money as businesses now but none of us buy newspapers anymore.

TanaMa

The country has no chance of improving for the masses until, unfortunately, the huge number of people choosing not to work, but living on benefits provided by others' taxes decide to get a job. I don't include genuinely sick/disabled people. However, there are many who just cheat the system

This is so true.

cc

fancythat

Most people wont like what I am going to say and that is part of the problem in my opinion.

Bat tunnel - £100 million.

Many many other schemes like that. Too many to mention.
And the majority of people, on GN at least, thought it was perfectly acceptable.

If money is spent on this type of thing, not so much money left for other things.

I agree with you, my husband has worked on engineering projects where this sort of thing happened. Our local council spends money painting zebra crossings in rainbow colours - minor spending, but typical of the wasted money in our economy. Why do we spend so much on things that, in a perfect world, we'd like to do but realistically we can't afford to do it today.

They spend £millions on feasibility studies, often several, but never do the actual work!

I'm also in a lucky position, our life is fine though we are not as comfortably off as we had realistically expected to be.
I wouldn't mind paying more tax if it was a temporary measure based on our annual income - this is what happened in the UK in the 60's to the better off sections of society.
But when there is talk of taxing peoples' capital that is an altogether different story. Many of us have saved all our lives into pensions, ISAs and savings accounts and would not take it well if the government decided to attack our savings as we rely on them for our future living expenses after retirement.
We need to encourage people to downsize if possible to get the housing market moving for people who need to move and to release more money into the economy. The idea of adding stamp duty to sales will stifle this. The idea of CGT on our main homes will hopefully be a non-runner as it is far too complicated to administer, in view of capital spent on home improvements etc.
The economy needs to be run in a balanced way but the current ideas doing the rounds suggests that the government will mainly be going for those of us who have always saved and invested so that we can look after ourselves in our old age.
I appreciate that there are many in society who are unable to work and look after themselves, one of my children is amongst this number, and they are being hit very hard at the moment. There are however many who could work and look after themselves and their families but who do not.
The money being wasted by Ed Milliband and his ilk could also be put to better use.

David49

GrannyGravy13

rocketstop

David49

I see no indication that the economy is good even the well off are economizing and businesses are very downbeat

This ! Exactly.

Spot on 👍

We don’t often eat out but Friday night was an anniversary so booked a table at our favourite mid range pub
I was surprised when I got my first choice of time 2 yrs ago it was very busy. They were only half full, nice food, sensible prices good service, I was very surprised.

If they are quiet the rest are really struggling.

We don't go out that often, but when we do, pubs and restaurants seem packed and it's essential to book a table in some places, lunchtime or evening.

One or two pub/restaurants do look extremely quiet as we go past but that is because they are not popular, usually because both the food and the staff are indifferent.

I doubt changing governments will change anything, if the economic model stays the same is just like changing clothes, different trousers but same idiots.

If you're interested, I've just read a book that may explain a lot of the economics government , how the economy works and why it seems so broken. it's called The Establishment -And how they get away with it by Owen Jones.I found it very enlightening and infuriating. For illustration one of the examples he uses is how the Government/Civil Service second people in from the big accountancy firms to help with new tax legislation and where the loopholes are that can be used to, legally, save the rich paying taxes. It's been well researched and is a real eye opener.

Because of the idiots who voted Labour

nanna8

MayBee70

nanna8

It is early days yet. When it gets closer to an election they will dig up major dirt on Reform and discredit them. That, or declare a war somewhere so everyone has to rally round and support the current crowd. Wait and see. Old tactic but tried and true and it usually works.

What a disgusting thing to say…from someone thousands of miles away gloating over all of this (don’t worry though…I’m the one that will get banned from this forum, not you…)

Truth hurts. I don’t think it is disgusting at all. Thatcher did it with her war in the Falklands. Blair did it. Open your eyes please. I never gloat, I love my country of birth but that is perhaps too hard for you to understand. I just do not love the current shower who are in government. You should have kept with Sunak, an honourable man.
Thanks for the lovely comment darling ,it cheered me up immensely.

Sometimes people living in other countries who still have close links to the UK can see things with a different perspective than those of us who live here and are more involved in whst is happening.

I was going to say see things more clearly but I think 'different perspective' is probably a better term.
Certainly some of my family living overseas ask pertinent questions and are puzzled by some decision making here.

I don't think there is a problem with that at all. It is not gloating any more than some of the comments on here about what is going on in the USA, which is not our country.

Sorry I posted this in the wrong place, Osborne's Austerity has left us all poorer.
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.tiktok.com/%40fryrsquared/video/7326976812322393377&ved=2ahUKEwj5jobpoMmPAxXBXUEAHSNhMr4QtwJ6BAgLEAE&usg=AOvVaw1P3mF0xEBxPKVykvPPHwyZ

If I may say so, OP, I think you have failed to take international events and politics into account.

All of Europe has experienced significant inflation resulting in food and utility prices rising quite steeply since the beginning of the war in Ukraine.

Trump's rather odd view of finance is not helping either.

Most people have had to tighten their belts significantly and many are finding it hard just to keep food on the table and their home reasonably warm.

Some of the hardship may be caused by individual governments misspending money or not using it as wisely as they perhaps could, but it would be unfair in the extreme to place all the blame on whoever in whichever country you live is in power right now.

The country has no chance of improving for the masses until, unfortunately, the huge number of people choosing not to work, but living on benefits provided by others' taxes decide to get a job. I don't include genuinely sick/disabled people. However, there are many who just cheat the system

fancythat

Most people wont like what I am going to say and that is part of the problem in my opinion.

Bat tunnel - £100 million.

Many many other schemes like that. Too many to mention.
And the majority of people, on GN at least, thought it was perfectly acceptable.

If money is spent on this type of thing, not so much money left for other things.

I agree with you, my husband has worked on engineering projects where this sort of thing happened. Our local council spends money painting zebra crossings in rainbow colours - minor spending, but typical of the wasted money in our economy. Why do we spend so much on things that, in a perfect world, we'd like to do but realistically we can't afford to do it today.

MayBee70

nanna8

It is early days yet. When it gets closer to an election they will dig up major dirt on Reform and discredit them. That, or declare a war somewhere so everyone has to rally round and support the current crowd. Wait and see. Old tactic but tried and true and it usually works.

What a disgusting thing to say…from someone thousands of miles away gloating over all of this (don’t worry though…I’m the one that will get banned from this forum, not you…)

Truth hurts. I don’t think it is disgusting at all. Thatcher did it with her war in the Falklands. Blair did it. Open your eyes please. I never gloat, I love my country of birth but that is perhaps too hard for you to understand. I just do not love the current shower who are in government. You should have kept with Sunak, an honourable man.
Thanks for the lovely comment darling ,it cheered me up immensely.

Thanks MaizieD and David, makes much more sense now, the thing is if it is possible to change an economic model as Thatcher did, who in today’s political landscape has the guts to do this?

GoodAfternoonTea

Looking back to when mine were small, if a mother went out to work, you would find a child minder and your little one was safe. They would be registered and perhaps even have their own children. Now, the emphasis seems to be on nursery schools which cost an arm and a leg because they have to meet so many rules and standards. I am not saying the old ways were better, but they did work. Also, the contents and decor in a home are so much hight now. We lived for 9 years with very old stuff and only when we had saved enough did my 60 year old kitchen get replaced. If suggested to the young generation now, they would be horrified if that was expected of them. We did not have a holiday for ten years as we needed every penny to pay the mortgage etc. I could go on. Expectations are different.

Just replaced our 40 year old kitchen, GoodAfternoonTea! It was still ok and probably would have seen us out; the new one isn't such good quality either but it is brighter and fresher.

When we moved into our first house we bought a second-hand table and chairs from a neighbour of my DB for £15. It looked absolutely fine and they said they could deliver it for us. It arrived on a trailer 😁, tied down with rope and a little chunk of the table had broken off. My father did a good job of making a piece to fit and it lasted us for nearly 25 years.

I don't think that turning the tide is impossible, Babs, but it requires the government/Treasury taking a different path.

David49 is correct with his citing of Keynesianism. This is the economic strategy that enabled the privatisation of some industry, the formation of the NHS and the movement towards a more equable distribution of wealth in the post WW2 period.

Neoliberal, market economy theory didn't take hold until Thatcher introduced it. She hated 'the state', running services,depicting it as a 'nanny state' and set about destroying as much of it as she could. Subsequent governments have continued her strategy, with the results we see today.

Government 'could' do more to change it, with more state investment in public services and progressive taxation which curbs the excessive growth of wealth (taken over all the 'wealthy' actually pay a smaller percentage of their incomes than do the rest of the populace) but I see little chance of that as our current government is in thrall to wealth and has no idea of how spending public money drives growth.

And, of course, so many people believe that a national budget is like a household budget, which it isn't, that they endure things like austerity because they think it's what should be done. This suits the wealthy just fine because they are unaffected by it.

“Also, of course, because they believe that wealth trickles down the wealthy are indulged with big tax advantages and exemptions.”

I suppose in this case that those at the top are more than happy to go along with a flawed economic model and to influence politicians of every hue once in power to go along with it as well. And turning the tide with regard to this is nigh on impossible.

GrannyGravy13

rocketstop

David49

I see no indication that the economy is good even the well off are economizing and businesses are very downbeat

This ! Exactly.

Spot on 👍

We don’t often eat out but Friday night was an anniversary so booked a table at our favourite mid range pub
I was surprised when I got my first choice of time 2 yrs ago it was very busy. They were only half full, nice food, sensible prices good service, I was very surprised.

If they are quiet the rest are really struggling.

There isn’t any quick solution to private ownership we have gone too far down the road to reverse it all.

I see the problem as the politicians not listening to the economists, Keynes promotes investment to increase the productive capacity of a nation that is exactly what we have not been doing in the UK. The service economy plus increased social spending has only resulted in a gradual sinking of the UK finances

…this rigged economy keeps on rewarding those with money whilst punishing those who have none.

It’s not totally deliberately rigged. It’s just based on a premise that has the result it does. That premise is that ‘the markets’ (private ownership of everything) are more efficient than tge state and that wealth will flow downwards.

Despite the fact that this clearly doesn’t work the government pushes on with it because the mainstream economists who have a grip on our financial institutions are trained to think that way and can’t see that there might be better approaches. It’s the epitome of that well known definition of madness. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Also, of course, because they believe that wealth trickles down the wealthy are indulged with big tax advantages and exemptions.