Let’s get real about migration

Incidentally, what action do you think people want to see?

growstuff

escaped

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

What exactly do you fear about immigration? Maybe if those fears could be discussed rationally, ways could be found to mitigate the fears or to make a more intelligent argument than the ones we now have.

I'm certainly not xenophobic, but I fear we will soon not have enough school places, hospital beds, etc if numbers increase greatly.
On a practical level.

escaped

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
There’s a debate on immigration on tv soon tonight, hosted by Trevor Phillips, should be interesting.

growstuff

PS. I don't know how you can claim that control of immigration is non-existent. People pay a fortune for visas and the Immigration Health Surcharge. Those without visas are also "controlled" and have a precarious life.

I didn't say that control of immigration is non existent, I meant that evidence that the current system is working is lacking.

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

escaped

growstuff

PS. I don't know how you can claim that control of immigration is non-existent. People pay a fortune for visas and the Immigration Health Surcharge. Those without visas are also "controlled" and have a precarious life.

I didn't say that control of immigration is non existent, I meant that evidence that the current system is working is lacking.

What do you want the current system to achieve? You have to define that before you can judge that it isn't working.

Oreo

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

(Sigh) It would be good to have rational discussion, but (as feared) it won't happen on GN.

escaped

growstuff

escaped

Interesting reading.
I don't do hysteria, and I am well aware of history, but what concerns me is the potential for these numbers to skyrocket. When people start to see action resulting in more controlled immigration, maybe they will calm down. At the moment this appears to be non existent, and that engenders uncertainty and fear.

What exactly do you fear about immigration? Maybe if those fears could be discussed rationally, ways could be found to mitigate the fears or to make a more intelligent argument than the ones we now have.

I'm certainly not xenophobic, but I fear we will soon not have enough school places, hospital beds, etc if numbers increase greatly.
On a practical level.

So build them! Schools are currently closing because the birth rate has plummeted. Hospitals would close with immigrant staff.

Please provide a rational disadvantage of immigration.

Are you the Chief Interrogator on GN?😄Is anyone’s views on here up to your own high standards of rational discussion?
Maybe there should be an exam before we dare post a comment.

The tv debate is on in a few minutes so time to sign out.Watch it growstuff you may learn something and be surprised.

I’ve been watching the BBC series The Art That Made Us on iPlayer, and it’s fascinating, it’s clear that mass migration has been a constant feature throughout history, as have major protests against change, before society settles again to a new normal.

Oreo

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

So why are people expecting Labour to turn it round in a short space of time?

T he vast majority of immigrants here are legal working or studying or been offered group asylum by the government, Hong Kong, Ukraine and some from Afghanistan.
The people who are desperate enough to risk their lives squeezed into these flimsy overloaded Plastic boats are a tiny percentage of immigrants, am thinking 3.5%. Yet all the anger and chatter is on these people. A woman and two children in separate incidents died today. RIP.

I really don't undertand why it is OK for some people to migrate to Spain or France but not OK for others to want to and try to come here.

I simply don't believe every newcomer has thrown his or her ID away, so that won't wash.

silverlining48

T he vast majority of immigrants here are legal working or studying or been offered group asylum by the government, Hong Kong, Ukraine and some from Afghanistan.
The people who are desperate enough to risk their lives squeezed into these flimsy overloaded Plastic boats are a tiny percentage of immigrants, am thinking 3.5%. Yet all the anger and chatter is on these people. A woman and two children in separate incidents died today. RIP.

RIP indeed. Wonder if they'll get a mention in the rant about " numbers arriving"

StripeyGran

I really don't undertand why it is OK for some people to migrate to Spain or France but not OK for others to want to and try to come here.

I simply don't believe every newcomer has thrown his or her ID away, so that won't wash.

Not difficult to understand!
People who emigrate to Spain and France do so legally and have sufficient money to buy a home there or rent.
They are not a drain on their chosen countries resources.

My concern re immigration is about the number of people in this country. We are a small overcrowded island, and we ought to talking about overpopulation more than we do.

Thank you for bringing the thread back to purpose woollywoman. Anybody who read the attachment at the beginning would see the big picture, and realise the ridiculousness of confining the debate to ‘illegal’ migrants as happens on so many Gransnet threads.

Woollywoman

My concern re immigration is about the number of people in this country. We are a small overcrowded island, and we ought to talking about overpopulation more than we do.

This point has been raised many times on GN. Sometimes referring to the boat arrivals, sometimes just expressing concern about the incoming numbers.
Thank you for your post.

Schools are currently closing because the birth rate has plummeted. Hospitals would close with immigrant staff.
When we have classes with only 20 pupils and a surplus of teachers, along with sufficient home grown doctors and far fewer hospital waiting lists, then I will no longer have concerns about immigration, other than of course security checks.

Exactly, as you say Woollywoman, where will it stop?

🤣🤣 Time and time again we are told on here to ignore any reports from the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph. Ed Conway previously worked for both, so ignore what he now writes for Sky.🤣🤣

Of course, I know who Ed Conway is, and hoped that the fact that it was him writing it would make even those people who don’t normally like reading factual information read the article, Primrose53.

StripeyGran

I really don't undertand why it is OK for some people to migrate to Spain or France but not OK for others to want to and try to come here.

I simply don't believe every newcomer has thrown his or her ID away, so that won't wash.

When we went to live abroad for 5 years ( not in the eu) we had to show our bank accounts every year to receive our residency.
If the authorities deemed that you didn’t have enough to live on, no residency.
All our health needs were private. All legal documents had to be translated by a documented translator costing a lot of money. So no, we didn’t take a bean from that country but we put an awful lot in.

Oreo

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

It is true that the Government has no idea about the numbers of illegal immigrants in the country; as you say, successive governments have failed to get a grip on the situation and people just disappear after their visas expire, working in the black economy and some getting drawn in by OC gangs.

This Government made a start by rushing in new rules earlier this year, which seem to be rather muddled.
Citizens of some countries who want to come here on holiday now require visas instead of ETAs but, as this was rushed through, some people were too late to obtain a Visa and had to cancel their holidays.

Will it make a difference? As the Government has no idea where many visitors are who were already here on visas which have now expired, it just seems to be rather pointless.

petra Well, if you "didn't take a bean" from the country you lived in and you put lots into it, why on earth did you go there? What country was it, and why did you come back here?

Surely someone posted on this issue of us being "overcrowded", too many foreigners, etc., on here - or was that on a different thread?

They laid out all the official figures, and those figures did not accord with the "country being overrun with immigrants" point of view.