Let’s get real about migration

Did anyone watch the immigration debate last night? The Sam Coates ‘after talk’ was more interesting than the debate which was frankly wearying with all the political speakers just arguing loudly with each other.None had a clue what would have any effect on the small boat invasion.

Why be so rude to posters growstuff when they are attempting to simply add their own thoughts? You appear to fondly think that only your own opinions are rational and want to chase anyone off the thread if their opinions don’t match your own.

PS. At least somebody can have your place while you're out of the country. Hope you see the irony.

escaped

growstuff You actually seem to be the poster putting in more emotion than anyone on this thread!
I'm not getting het up about anything, just saying large numbers of immigrants cost the UK a lot of money, (when we haven't got any spare), and that's a good enough reason for it to stop until we can come up with action to make it work better. That's a level headed argument.

As for more land, I'm currently in France which has three times as much land as the UK, yet they are still concerned about the numbers arriving here in the Hexagon.
Why? Because the state has no money to provide for them, it is in enough financial trouble already. The French tv news discussions are full of it.

Pure gaslighting from you!

No, I'm trying to have a rational discussion. Unfortunately, you (and others) come up with emotional responses.

GoodAfternoonTea

We seriously need to think what kind of legacy we are leaving our children and grandchildren.

What on earth does that mean?

I might just remind you that a good few of our lovely Gransnetters could be second generation migrants.

Please do think before you post!

silverlining48

T he vast majority of immigrants here are legal working or studying or been offered group asylum by the government, Hong Kong, Ukraine and some from Afghanistan.
The people who are desperate enough to risk their lives squeezed into these flimsy overloaded Plastic boats are a tiny percentage of immigrants, am thinking 3.5%. Yet all the anger and chatter is on these people. A woman and two children in separate incidents died today. RIP.

👏👏👏👏👏

I don’t think anyone would argue that immigration into the UK, however they arrive, needs reforming and better monitored and processes made far more efficient.

However, part of the “hysteria” around immigration lies very heavily on the shoulders of Reform and our media.

It is they who’ve helped stir up this awful attitude towards “Jonny Foreigner” and their constant blame onto migration for all our issues and problems.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, good and bad people are universal, no race, colour or creed has more “bad people” than any other. I’m not talking about terrorists.

Please, in the name of decency and humanity, can we not come together and agree for once.

We seriously need to think what kind of legacy we are leaving our children and grandchildren.

growstuff You actually seem to be the poster putting in more emotion than anyone on this thread!
I'm not getting het up about anything, just saying large numbers of immigrants cost the UK a lot of money, (when we haven't got any spare), and that's a good enough reason for it to stop until we can come up with action to make it work better. That's a level headed argument.

As for more land, I'm currently in France which has three times as much land as the UK, yet they are still concerned about the numbers arriving here in the Hexagon.
Why? Because the state has no money to provide for them, it is in enough financial trouble already. The French tv news discussions are full of it.

nanna8

It’s not migrants and immigration that is so much of a problem.It is small boats which need stopping. They are dangerous. The country needs to stop making excuses and stop them. You have a navy.Every death is because the UK is encouraging and supporting them. What is wrong with the various governments?

I don't understand this post at all.

Are you claiming that immigrants aren't the problem people are claiming they are? That's my understanding.

I agree that passage by small, overcrowded boat is dangerous. That could be reduced drastically by giving people a safe route - by issuing visas in France or Belgium.

I'm not sure what you expect the navy to do. Are they supposed to sink the boats and watch people drown? Or maybe shoot them?

How exactly is the UK government encouraging and supporting immigrants who arrive by small boat?

In any case, you claimed that immigration isn't a problem. I think others would disagree, judging by the reasons they have given. The number of immigrants arriving by boat are a tiny percentage of the number of immigrants in total.

The OP started with a plea for rational discussion, not a rehash of the inaccurate tropes which are floating about. Start by defining what the problem actually is.

It’s not migrants and immigration that is so much of a problem.It is small boats which need stopping. They are dangerous. The country needs to stop making excuses and stop them. You have a navy.Every death is because the UK is encouraging and supporting them. What is wrong with the various governments?

Indeed: more than plenty of spare land. Problem is that it's overwhelmingly owned by the Duke of Westminster and his ilk.

People who say "oh I dont recognise this country anymore" are indeed ignoring the past as waves of immigrants from different countries cam there - and we went "there" (like mass migration by the poor to the USA from the UK and Ireland)

I love my multi racial city. it gives colour and variety to life. I dont want same old same old ye olde country village. I got to a gym that is multiracial, the workers there and the customers. I shop in supermarkets where there are many backgrounds and languages. it enriches me. whats not to like?

Just tonight I was at the gym practicing yoga next to a lady that was making nearly the same moves as me, and I've been doing it for nearly 50 years now. she has a bad back, I showed her a couple of things. she is a cleaner at the gym. later we were moved on by a class starting but she came up to me and asked for a session. she's got natural talent to an extraordinary level.

She came from Eritrea. I didn't ask her about the horrors she escaped, or how she got here

(As a Christian, it could well have been a church scheme).

We had a great laugh as well as discussing inter-cultural matters. her back ground and skin colour made no difference whatsoever.

Whats not to like?

She is a talented caring lady (had first worked in a care home)

(my guess had had a good education before escaping (the level of concepts she understood, if not all the exact words).

So to those who desperately cling to "us" and "them' - open your eyes and heart, and ...enjoy.

Like many others she has so much to give, and a rich ness of experience we can learn from, as she can from us.

Woollywoman

My concern re immigration is about the number of people in this country. We are a small overcrowded island, and we ought to talking about overpopulation more than we do.

The UK is not the most densely populated part of the world. There is plenty of land available - look around you.

escaped

^Schools are currently closing because the birth rate has plummeted. Hospitals would close with immigrant staff.^
When we have classes with only 20 pupils and a surplus of teachers, along with sufficient home grown doctors and far fewer hospital waiting lists, then I will no longer have concerns about immigration, other than of course security checks.

Exactly, as you say Woollywoman, where will it stop?

Please explain why you need to know when it will stop.

Unless history is about to stand still (which is highly unlikely), migration will never stop. Why does it need to stop?

Surely someone posted on this issue of us being "overcrowded", too many foreigners, etc., on here - or was that on a different thread?

They laid out all the official figures, and those figures did not accord with the "country being overrun with immigrants" point of view.

petra Well, if you "didn't take a bean" from the country you lived in and you put lots into it, why on earth did you go there? What country was it, and why did you come back here?

Oreo

Government has let down the people in the UK for years because of lax and incompetent behaviour by the Home Office.
They haven’t a clue who’s in the country, they don’t check expired visas or chase anything up.

It is true that the Government has no idea about the numbers of illegal immigrants in the country; as you say, successive governments have failed to get a grip on the situation and people just disappear after their visas expire, working in the black economy and some getting drawn in by OC gangs.

This Government made a start by rushing in new rules earlier this year, which seem to be rather muddled.
Citizens of some countries who want to come here on holiday now require visas instead of ETAs but, as this was rushed through, some people were too late to obtain a Visa and had to cancel their holidays.

Will it make a difference? As the Government has no idea where many visitors are who were already here on visas which have now expired, it just seems to be rather pointless.

StripeyGran

I really don't undertand why it is OK for some people to migrate to Spain or France but not OK for others to want to and try to come here.

I simply don't believe every newcomer has thrown his or her ID away, so that won't wash.

When we went to live abroad for 5 years ( not in the eu) we had to show our bank accounts every year to receive our residency.
If the authorities deemed that you didn’t have enough to live on, no residency.
All our health needs were private. All legal documents had to be translated by a documented translator costing a lot of money. So no, we didn’t take a bean from that country but we put an awful lot in.

Of course, I know who Ed Conway is, and hoped that the fact that it was him writing it would make even those people who don’t normally like reading factual information read the article, Primrose53.

🤣🤣 Time and time again we are told on here to ignore any reports from the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph. Ed Conway previously worked for both, so ignore what he now writes for Sky.🤣🤣

Schools are currently closing because the birth rate has plummeted. Hospitals would close with immigrant staff.
When we have classes with only 20 pupils and a surplus of teachers, along with sufficient home grown doctors and far fewer hospital waiting lists, then I will no longer have concerns about immigration, other than of course security checks.

Exactly, as you say Woollywoman, where will it stop?

Woollywoman

My concern re immigration is about the number of people in this country. We are a small overcrowded island, and we ought to talking about overpopulation more than we do.

This point has been raised many times on GN. Sometimes referring to the boat arrivals, sometimes just expressing concern about the incoming numbers.
Thank you for your post.

Thank you for bringing the thread back to purpose woollywoman. Anybody who read the attachment at the beginning would see the big picture, and realise the ridiculousness of confining the debate to ‘illegal’ migrants as happens on so many Gransnet threads.

My concern re immigration is about the number of people in this country. We are a small overcrowded island, and we ought to talking about overpopulation more than we do.