Can Starmer survive? The wolves are circling in the Labour Party.

David49

fancythat

!st question yes.
2nd, as I say it doesnt help.
3rd, maybe just an image but I dont think so. And Sir Kier cant manage that image.

I don’t have a problem with Starmers image but it seems his MPs certainly do

What. All of his MP’s?

fancythat

!st question yes.
2nd, as I say it doesnt help.
3rd, maybe just an image but I dont think so. And Sir Kier cant manage that image.

I don’t have a problem with Starmers image but it seems his MPs certainly do

Of these, I would say that Sir Kier Starmer comes across[and he could be as well] the least likely to drink in a pub, or whatever "image" may be "needed" for right now for the Uk.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Leaders_of_the_Labour_Party_(UK)

Do you mean like the people in Clacton who don't earn a high wage?
Farage is an experienced performer. He will perform for rightwing neo nazi audiences, for Putin, for Trump, for anyone when the money or 'gains' are enough. That's why he is always on TV. He knows how to captivate an audience. It does not mean that he is thinking of you, or that he will do his best for your concerns.

!st question yes.
2nd, as I say it doesnt help.
3rd, maybe just an image but I dont think so. And Sir Kier cant manage that image.

fancythat

Maremia

Lots of interesting posts and theories so far, but doodledog has hit the nail on the head.
Comunication, shaping the narrative, getting your story across.
Farage is a master of this art.

It doesnt help that Sir Kier, with his lawyer credentials, doesnt come across as being at ease with people who do not earn a high wage.
Whereas Farage and Tommy do.

You mean he doesn’t pose in pubs holding a pint of beer and a cigarette? Is that where he’s going wrong?? And what makes you think that Farage and Yaxley Lennon actually mix with the people that they supposedly represent?

Maremia

Lots of interesting posts and theories so far, but doodledog has hit the nail on the head.
Comunication, shaping the narrative, getting your story across.
Farage is a master of this art.

It doesnt help that Sir Kier, with his lawyer credentials, doesnt come across as being at ease with people who do not earn a high wage.
Whereas Farage and Tommy do.

M0nica

MaizieD

My goodness, MOnica. That's an even more 'interesting' suggestion than that of Angela Rayner!

We've already had to endure one corrupt PM,heaven save us from another one...

Actually I would sooner have a 'corrupt' PM who really is good at the job and improves the conditions of the people in the UK and our standing in the world to having a sea green incoruutible in charge of the government who cannot govern and is a laughing stock overseas.

I thought when he first got into number ten that Starmer was different….but all too soon came the story of freebies, designer suits and designer glasses, designer dresses for his wife, designer outfits for Reeves and Rayner, and hope plummeted.

May we never again have a PM like poll tax, destroy the miners, privatise our public services, Margaret Thatcher.

Romola

Well said DaisyAnne. KS may not have "charisma" but nor did Clement Attlee. KS and Rachel Reeves made the big mistake of failing to present their actually sensible reforms in a way that the would have been acceptable to the majority
And M0nica, when you're in a hole, stop digging! The idea of PM as PM is pretty sick.

What 'reforms' has Reeves presented and what makes them 'sensible', please?

Thatcher didn’t have to contend with social media. And she made many people’s lives hell…

Crossstitchfan

Wouldn’t it be good if, for once, we could have a leader who not only leads, but actually knows how to? Since Mrs Thatcher, (she wasn’t popular, but did the job) we have had only wimps.

True!

Lots of interesting posts and theories so far, but doodledog has hit the nail on the head.
Comunication, shaping the narrative, getting your story across.
Farage is a master of this art.

Well said DaisyAnne. KS may not have "charisma" but nor did Clement Attlee. KS and Rachel Reeves made the big mistake of failing to present their actually sensible reforms in a way that the would have been acceptable to the majority
And M0nica, when you're in a hole, stop digging! The idea of PM as PM is pretty sick.

M0nica

I do not think Mandelson is a despot, but I do think that he is as devious and nasty as Trump, putin and Xi and probably a darn sight cleverer.

And for a world power, whose power has wained, the economic success of the country does actually depend more on how we stand internationally than it does for other countries.

Who would want to be a citizen like a chinese or a Russian?
And plenty of people on this forum it seems, wouldnt want to be a citizen of the USA either.

Whether their Country was "big on the world stage" or not.

I think the idea of pushing Starmer out is ridiculous. No one is going to be all things to all people. They have every chance of being able to show they have turned at least some of the last 14 years round by the time of the next election, hitting their goals in the process - and any new goverment will be as tried and untested as this lot is now - more so if it's Retreat.

They have been working on the communications between the Treasury abd No. 10 which should help, but they're human just as anyone else would be human.

This doesn't mean I would vote for them when we do get there, but that depends more on the various Labour factions than anything else. If they are undermining their own party why would anyone vote for it?

Agree with OP that I'm not sure anyone else would do better than KS.

We seem to be working up group hysteria here on GN like an ancient Greek chorus. Making the most of every set back, harping on about the same controversies, talking up every disadvantage. But soon be time for the Halloe'en threads...

Doodledog

Sorry, that was badly worded. I meant that I wouldn't have a clue about paying SDLT on a house when I didn't own another one (as it was in trust), In other words I understand AR's confusion.

Ms Rayner was advised to take further advice on the issue which she did not do.
She did resign which was the right thing to do and it is too soon for her to make a comeback although I'm sure she will in the future.

Starmer did sack Mandelson and quite rightly but he should never have said he was standing by him.

It's one mistake and U turn after another, unfortunately.

Oreo

Starmer isn’t doing well but the thought of Rayner being PM or Andy Burnham either makes me gulp!
Starmer has time yet to make his mark but needs to stop blowing with the wind and be proactive not reactive.

Yes, he's better than the alternative.

He does need to think carefully before he speaks and not keep changing his mind on important issues.

Mandelson is fundamentally devious and dishonest but he has a fatal flaw; he thinks he is more clever than anyone one else. He is not, which is why he keeps getting caught out.

Starmer's heart is in the EU and if he has a plan it is to return Britain to Europe, hence the toadying. Not an international figure
Once Trump's visit to the royal family has concluded it will be interesting to see if we are granted any more favours.

I might add Maizie that I see no evidence that the current government, under any leader, is capable of improving the living conditions of anyone, rich or poor.

They bleat on about it constantly, but everything they do just makes matters worse or has no effect at all. Come to that I do not see that any other party is capable of it either.

For years Tommy Robinson and Farage have been trying to be rabble rousers and catch a crowd, but wothout success. It was only when this current govenment got in and began to make clear that it is no better, if not worse than what went before that suddenly these two rabble rousers started collecting the crowds.

I do not think Mandelson is a despot, but I do think that he is as devious and nasty as Trump, putin and Xi and probably a darn sight cleverer.

And for a world power, whose power has wained, the economic success of the country does actually depend more on how we stand internationally than it does for other countries.

petra

MOnica
You’re not alone with that idea. Talking with friends yesterday my partner, a card carrying member of the Labour Party until Corbyn put that suggestion forward.
As you pointed out the world is ruled by despots so why not have our own one at the top table.

Wanting a despot at the helm?
My gosh.
Think how they all treat their own citizens.

I wouldnt want one in a million years.

MaizieD
Your correct. Mandelson doesn’t give a flying about the man in the street. His raison d’etra is power. He’s clever enough to know and understand what makes us happy thereby keeping him in power.

MOnica
You’re not alone with that idea. Talking with friends yesterday my partner, a card carrying member of the Labour Party until Corbyn put that suggestion forward.
As you pointed out the world is ruled by despots so why not have our own one at the top table.