Can Starmer survive? The wolves are circling in the Labour Party.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/26/morgan-mcsweeney-labour-together-electoral-commission-no-evidence-other-offences
Keep up.

youtu.be/Vly1rbFX8-M?feature=shared

mcSweeny scandal

Primrose53

Surprised there has been no mention on here about the latest scandal with McSweeny.

I'm wondering about that, too, Primrose

Apparently Steph Driver KS’s head of comms has resigned. She has been with him for over five years.

Fingers crossed the next one will be more successful at getting Labours message and ethos over.

Thank you for the New Statesmen link DAR. A fascinating discussion. I’ve now got scribbled notes all over the back pages of Private Eye which was nearest bit of paper to hand late last night!

An interesting segue too into Burnham’s reading choices: Middlemarch, Larkin and Harrison - my favourite novel and two poets whose work I enjoy despite the melancholia.

Anyone who will do away with the awful phrase “social housing” as Burnham would, and tries to unwind the damage of the 1980s with an emphasis on public housing provision and nationalising utilities would have my vote.

Good analogy of Callagham rolling the pitch for Thatcher from 1977 onwards and Starmer now doing the same for Farage.

Most of all the discussion about the weakness of minority government in the sense of Labour having been elected on only 34% of votes; that Burnham would favour PR and an alliance with the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and Corbyn. That’s the way to beat Reform, with a left of centre alliance that puts people ahead of party. We know (or knew) from YouGov polling that LibDems would do very well under AV as they are most people’s second if not first choice. By contrast, Reform would do very badly as few like them other than people who like Reform.

This was not long after the GE and things may have shifted:

yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50091-how-do-britons-rank-the-main-parties

The only party leaders who would have won their seat outright in 2024 under AV were Davey and Denyer. In most seats, far more people didn’t want the person who won the seat than did. We need to find a way to represent their choices.

Whether AB serously wants to challenge for the leadership now only he knows but I don’t think it hurts at all to remind the government, as Labour goes to conference, that this is not the socialist government that many of us want.

I don’t underestimate the task that Labour faced as they took office, nor the problems that Trump is presenting and the right wing here stirs on a daily basis, but people at the very least, need to see real change on housing and child poverty, things that I do believe AB would tackle as a priority.

I think when you get to this stage ( admittedly this usually happens when a party has been in government for years) the scandals/cock ups just keep mounting, it becomes unstoppable after a while.
The 'scandal' that finished Johnson wasn't what finished him ( my guess is only a few will remember what it was - defending a MP who was caught groping) it was the cumulative effect of a number of disasters.

And Director of Communications, Steph Driver leaving Labour.

Surprised there has been no mention on here about the latest scandal with McSweeny.

Iam64

David49, Burnham is not and never has been ‘far left ‘. He might not be a leadership candidate yet for reason already set out. He is threatening Starmer’s leadership by his actions

I didn’t describe Burnham as far left but many of his supporters are.
Lack of talent in the government is very apparent, appointing Lammy as deputy is a good example

Iam64

David49, Burnham is not and never has been ‘far left ‘. He might not be a leadership candidate yet for reason already set out. He is threatening Starmer’s leadership by his actions

My DB voted for him in the leadership contest years ago, if Burnham was far-left, he wouldn't have done so.

The idea that AB is 'the darling of left wing extremists' is ridiculous, and it is a sign of the fractured times that this is trotted out as an insult.

I understand Mancunians not wanting him to stand - I would feel the same if I lived there - but I don't think his ambition is a bad thing in itself. Anyone who stands for leader is ambitious by definition, and not getting it in one round doesn't mean that that ambition will go away.

Of course he's going to say that his current role is what he wants to do. It would be insulting to say that it's a stepping stone to the top, and he wouldn't have got it had he said that at the time of the Mayoral election. It's no different from any other job interview - you don't get the one you really want, so you do your best in another in the meantime, prove yourself, maybe get advice on how to to better, then when the time is right you try again. There's nothing disloyal about that, IMO. The alternative would be to say that people get only one shot at the top, and if that fails they spend the rest of their career doing something else, and watch other, untested, candidates have a go.

I would like to see him succeed, but I'm not sure either that this is the best time to launch an unsolicited campaign. I'm not sure that this is what he's done though. Maybe he planted the questions about it - who knows - but if, as presented, he was just answering questions put to him he is far from the only person to criticise the system or the leadership.

I do understand that criticism from within undermines an already beleaguered Starmer however, and have every sympathy with him (KS) for that. He's had nothing but sniping from the start, and doesn't need it from the sidelines of his own party. All the same, if he is going to be ousted, it won't be by a shy retiring type who happens to find him/herself catapulted into the role. It will be someone with ambition and a ruthless streak, which is what leaders have to be.

My partner read that the MP with health problems said there was no way that he was going to stand down to give Burnham a seat. I’ll try to find the article.

David49, Burnham is not and never has been ‘far left ‘. He might not be a leadership candidate yet for reason already set out. He is threatening Starmer’s leadership by his actions

David49

It’s hardly a threat to Starmer is it, leftwing Burnham isn’t an MP that has been rejected several times before and unlikely to get elected.

He may be the darling of the left wing extremists but is not a serious contender.

The Telegraph and tge New Statesman are featuring him with apparent approval. I don’t think you could describe either as ‘left wing extremists’.

If Burnham is unacceptable to our staunch Labour defenders who might they have in mind as alternatives?

Because Starmer has to go. He has yet another shocking, crawling to the right, ‘immigration’ piece in the Telegraph this morning.

David49

It’s hardly a threat to Starmer is it, leftwing Burnham isn’t an MP that has been rejected several times before and unlikely to get elected.

He may be the darling of the left wing extremists but is not a serious contender.

I really don't agree that Burnham is the "darling of left wing extremists", although I do agree that he's not a serious contender to lead the party.

It’s hardly a threat to Starmer is it, leftwing Burnham isn’t an MP that has been rejected several times before and unlikely to get elected.

He may be the darling of the left wing extremists but is not a serious contender.

Iam64

I didn’t vote for Andy when he stood for the leadership. I like him as our Mayor, he’s visible, available, hardworking and knows our area well. He was active in Gtr Manc throughout the election campaign.
I’m less impressed by him being interviewed in the Telegraph, undermining the party (not only Starmer), setting himself centre stage the week before conference.

There is talk of a Manchester mp standing down so Andy could stand. I’ve heard various rumours, including Graham Stringer who it’s said has health problems. Apologies if this is not so. His constituency is classic deprived inner city area. Reform Farrage have already said they’ll push the boat out anywhere Andy stands. He could lose to reform, we’d lose a good mayor in the process

He’s repeatedly stated commitment to his term. Repeatedly said he has no desire to return to Westminster, where it’s impossible to get things done. Poor show Andy, yes Starmer needs to be more visible on the home front, comms need a rocket but use your popularity to help get this govt in a better place

Agree 100% 👏👏👏

I didn’t vote for Burnham for party leader either.

I didn’t vote for Andy when he stood for the leadership. I like him as our Mayor, he’s visible, available, hardworking and knows our area well. He was active in Gtr Manc throughout the election campaign.
I’m less impressed by him being interviewed in the Telegraph, undermining the party (not only Starmer), setting himself centre stage the week before conference.

There is talk of a Manchester mp standing down so Andy could stand. I’ve heard various rumours, including Graham Stringer who it’s said has health problems. Apologies if this is not so. His constituency is classic deprived inner city area. Reform Farrage have already said they’ll push the boat out anywhere Andy stands. He could lose to reform, we’d lose a good mayor in the process

He’s repeatedly stated commitment to his term. Repeatedly said he has no desire to return to Westminster, where it’s impossible to get things done. Poor show Andy, yes Starmer needs to be more visible on the home front, comms need a rocket but use your popularity to help get this govt in a better place

Casdon

It’s actually put me off Andy Burnham somewhat, I don’t think he has done himself any favours by speaking up now. He should have stuck to criticising Starmer/the government for their shortcomings without mentioning his own position in my opinion.

Me too Casdon, although I wasn’t particularly keen on him anyway - even less so now.

Whenever things look tough for KS, Burnham pipes up … look at me, look at me! He did this when Labour were in opposition.

I don’t like the way he’s currently coming across ‘holier than thou’ … ‘I don’t really want to challenge Starmer, but Labour MPs are pushing me do it’.

Rubbish! He’s tried to be the party leader twice. He wants it - I’d have more respect for him if he was up front and honest (!!!).

Either put up or shut up - this pot stirring does nobody any good (apart from Burnham’s own ego).

… and that’s from a northern lass through and through!

Casdon

It’s actually put me off Andy Burnham somewhat, I don’t think he has done himself any favours by speaking up now. He should have stuck to criticising Starmer/the government for their shortcomings without mentioning his own position in my opinion.

Interesting Casdon. He has very different basic views to Starmer and I have to admit it's left me scratching my head.

His description of housing and the original view if council housing is something I've discussed with friends in the past. Structural change, proper structural change also interests me as does his possible willingness to work with other parties to ensure a majority vote is represented as well as a majority of seats. That would presumably lead on to PR.

Quite a bit more than that to absorb. I think I'll watch it again and take notes! It would be good to hear how others are hearing it too.

Casdon

It’s actually put me off Andy Burnham somewhat, I don’t think he has done himself any favours by speaking up now. He should have stuck to criticising Starmer/the government for their shortcomings without mentioning his own position in my opinion.

I wonder how the people of Manchester feel given that he now seems to be using his mayorship as a stepping stone to greater things? Hasn’t he recently committed to being mayor for several more years? I’ll be writing to my MP to point out that I voted for a Labour Party led by Keir Starmer and I shall continue to support him. Which doesn’t mean to say I won’t criticise the party when it’s appropriate. Isn’t the country sick of having a government that’s like a game of musical chairs leader wise? Burnham failed twice to become party leader but all he’s done in recent years is snipe from the sidelines and I don’t like that sort of behaviour, not when it’s due to having an ulterior motive.

Oreo

Ladyleftfieldlover

I’ve always had a bit of a crush on Andy Burnham.

Is it the eyelashes?😄

Or the “topper”? 🤔

It’s actually put me off Andy Burnham somewhat, I don’t think he has done himself any favours by speaking up now. He should have stuck to criticising Starmer/the government for their shortcomings without mentioning his own position in my opinion.

This is a link to a conversation with the journalist who wrote the interview with Andy Burnham which is generally thought to hsve sparked all the recent interest.

His view of both Andy Burnham and Keir Starmer, who he previously interested are worth watching.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsWSq7Q37YQ

Galaxy

However considering the latest announcement I will now be personally driving Burnham to the doors of number 10.

I don't know what to think about ID cards. I can see arguments for and against and believe them both.