Gransnet forums

News & politics

This must be a sad day for England

(615 Posts)
BlueBelle Sat 13-Sept-25 16:01:07

More than 100,000 people in central London have joined a march organised by far-right activist Tommy Robinson

I ll say no more it’s devastating for this country

M0nica Sat 13-Sept-25 21:54:52

growstuff

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

Is Brexit an elephant in the room? whether it is elephant or mouse is irrelevant it is just part of the manifestation of the enormous gulf between those who run the country and ordinary people.

TR has got nothing to do with forming the way people think. It is the other way round. He has come to the fore because of peoples disaffection with the political process and how it runs rough shod over them. Like Farage, he has exploited it.

The answer is for those in power to listen to what is being said, and to accept how out of touch they are and actually accept that they have to change, that they do have to abandon some of their treasured projects because the people who vote for governments do not like them or want them. They actually have to listen to Farage, look at what makes people want to vote Reform and accept that some of their cherished, aims, probably ones that I would like, are just not acceptable to many in this country

Namsnanny Sat 13-Sept-25 21:36:52

Oreo

growstuff

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

Monica what you have described is exactly it….don’t let anyone tell you any different.
It’s right on the button!

The elephant in the room is who benefits from divided populous? Dig a bit deeper still.

theworriedwell Sat 13-Sept-25 21:34:35

I think you missed the maths. More people arrested than police assaulted at one event, the opposite at the other event. Surely there should be st least as many arrested as assaults on the police or is part of the culture they are celebrating assaulting the police.

I may be biased as Ive been my husband's carer for over 35 years due to injuries on duty.

Oreo Sat 13-Sept-25 21:27:54

growstuff

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

Monica what you have described is exactly it….don’t let anyone tell you any different.
It’s right on the button!

Namsnanny Sat 13-Sept-25 21:26:19

theworriedwell

keepingquiet

Oh let them have their parades and flag waving! it is one of the freedoms we enjoy here, I don't see the problem.

I really think we need to give people their much needed bread and circuses back.

I think we should have days off for the major patron Saints day here in the UK. Have big parades, people singing and dressing up and generally having a good time.

I think we should also organise sports events where immigrants could compete alongside the natives and we could all have a jolly good time- hold raffles, sell home baking etc- cheese rolling competitions etc- all those things we do really well.

I seem to remember one party leader was all in favour of having Bank Holidays for every UK countries Saints Day-oh yes, his name was Jeremy Corbyn...

And when they assault police officers, what then? We just smile and say they're just having a bit of fun.

Well, that's exactly what happens with Not Carnival.
How many Police assaulted this year, 55 I think. Plus 100 arrests before it even started.

theworriedwell Sat 13-Sept-25 21:14:47

keepingquiet

Oh let them have their parades and flag waving! it is one of the freedoms we enjoy here, I don't see the problem.

I really think we need to give people their much needed bread and circuses back.

I think we should have days off for the major patron Saints day here in the UK. Have big parades, people singing and dressing up and generally having a good time.

I think we should also organise sports events where immigrants could compete alongside the natives and we could all have a jolly good time- hold raffles, sell home baking etc- cheese rolling competitions etc- all those things we do really well.

I seem to remember one party leader was all in favour of having Bank Holidays for every UK countries Saints Day-oh yes, his name was Jeremy Corbyn...

And when they assault police officers, what then? We just smile and say they're just having a bit of fun.

growstuff Sat 13-Sept-25 21:14:09

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

theworriedwell Sat 13-Sept-25 21:13:00

Why have there only been 9 arrested when The Met says 26 officers assaulted? Two tier justice?

keepingquiet Sat 13-Sept-25 21:12:26

Oh let them have their parades and flag waving! it is one of the freedoms we enjoy here, I don't see the problem.

I really think we need to give people their much needed bread and circuses back.

I think we should have days off for the major patron Saints day here in the UK. Have big parades, people singing and dressing up and generally having a good time.

I think we should also organise sports events where immigrants could compete alongside the natives and we could all have a jolly good time- hold raffles, sell home baking etc- cheese rolling competitions etc- all those things we do really well.

I seem to remember one party leader was all in favour of having Bank Holidays for every UK countries Saints Day-oh yes, his name was Jeremy Corbyn...

butterandjam Sat 13-Sept-25 21:08:45

@Fried green tomatoes* FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 13-Sept-25 16:17:34

65 Sharia courts in England for a start.

They are not courts of law. They are voluntary tribunals or councils, and cannot change or overrule any UK laws. In exactly the same way that the Catholic church ecclesiatic tribunal addresses religious beliefs about annulment, divorce, abortion, burial but those do not affect UK laws on divorce, abortion in any way.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 13-Sept-25 21:02:39

Primrose53

Only 9 arrests today.

Notting Hill Carnival - 400 arrests

Palestine Action - 900 arrests

Pretty amaz! 😁

theworriedwell Sat 13-Sept-25 21:01:32

FriedGreenTomatoes2

65 Sharia courts in England for a start. Reported in the Daily Mail yesterday. I mentioned them months ago and was shot down on here. We should ALL be bound by only one law in the UK. A Muslim professor was saying the same thing on television a few days ago. He was horrified by their existence HERE. Totally unnecessary he said even for civil disputes amongst neighbours and cousins.

Do you feel the same about Beth Din?

Babs03 Sat 13-Sept-25 21:00:10

Am open to a debate about the far right needing to be listened to or there could be a revolution. Or a Trump style leader in the UK presumably. However, revolutions don’t tend to come from the far right, and that is because the ruling elites in the UK and US etc., are quite happy to accommodate a far right government, it means their interests are secure and workers rights are way down the agenda. Since Trump came to power life has only got much harder for ordinary Americans, not easier. And of course it is far more probable that the Judiciary can be bent to the will of a far right government with human rights eroded. We have all heard about opting out of the ECHR.
Indeed the far right isn’t fighting ‘the establishment’ it very much is ‘the establishment’, Trump is a business man chasing dollars, Farage is having his strings pulled by the ruling elite here and in the US.
Revolutions come from the left with good reason, because the left seek to dismantle the establishment. But the left has been castrated so that revolutions don’t happen anymore.
Don’t be fooled by those who say they are radicals seeking to shake up the status quo.
They only want to give the poor sod’s at the bottom something to rail against so that they don’t realise how much they are being shafted by those at the top.

winterwhite Sat 13-Sept-25 20:56:19

In addition to Monica’s points I think public disillusionment is also because daily life is now so hard for so many people. Austerity hasn’t worked. Brexit hasn’t worked. Despite the warnings of Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves we did somehow think that things would get tangibly better after July ‘24. And for many of us it hasn’t, and these are the consequences.

Aveline Sat 13-Sept-25 20:33:43

BTW that photo was from the Telegraph. There are similar pics from other places too.

Aveline Sat 13-Sept-25 20:32:34

Says it all.

Primrose53 Sat 13-Sept-25 20:25:58

Only 9 arrests today.

Notting Hill Carnival - 400 arrests

Palestine Action - 900 arrests

MaizieD Sat 13-Sept-25 20:24:28

winterwhite

Nowhere here is it said what the protest/march is actually About.

People are claiming that it was about Uniting the UK. Judging from posts on here I don't think it's achieved its objective.

M0nica Sat 13-Sept-25 20:23:08

Aveline

M0nica you are exactly right!

But even those who read my post will ignore it, because they have made upmtheir mines and as Kadinsky so rightly says

Everyday, the same people saying the same things.

Poster A) ‘Yay! Fly the flags’

‘Poster B). Racist!’

That’s basically all you get.

serious discussion on why it is happening and what can be done to respond to the issues that lead to Robinson's support, are so far less exciting, but so much more important.

Namsnanny Sat 13-Sept-25 20:21:39

M0nica

The question no one is asking is why Tommy Robinson is attracting so much support, or indeed why Nigel Farage and Reform get so much support.

Its easy peasy jackaneasy to get all upset and wild-eyed because all these events are happenng, anyone can do thaat.

The question people should beasking and thinking about, and perhaps accepting some uncomfortable truths is why people like Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage attract so much support.

The answer is quite straightforward. Over the last few decades, politics and government has slipped into the handsof an urban intellectual elite, from a variety of backgrounds, who think themselves superior to all of us, who believe they know what we ought to want better than we do and are determined to give us what they want to give us, to dismiss the fears and concerns of what they would conisider the lumpen prolatariat.

This knd of thing goes on for so long then the despised common people take over, and since those in charge refuse to listen they look to leaders who are articulate how they feel, what they want in life and what sort of society they want to live in.

This society may well contain elelments that we do not like and make us put our hands to our face in horror. But why should we have everything our way and ignore those who disagree with us because they are less well educated and not as articulate.

This how most revolutions start. It is how the French Revolution started, and the unsuccessful risings in Hungary and Czechoslovakia in 1956 and 1968 and the successful overthrow of the USSR in 1991.

It is now happening in Western Europe and is advanced in Eastern Europe, now it is the British turn. It is up to the main stream parties to listen to those deserting them for the extreme right, listen to them and act on their deep concerns and not just dismiss them as Gordeon Brown did when he called a Labour supporter who had challenged him over the economy and immigration a "bigoted woman".

Totally agree with nearly all of your post M0nica.

If I can add my perspective to your 6th paragraph, I would not necessarily have used the words less well educated. Some of the people on the Unite the country rally, would have what is now called lived experience. Living directly under the pressures the cons and now lab gov have foisted on the public. I think they have a better 'education' than any text book/phd/warped news article could ever portray.

Whilst those who came up with these ideas live in any and every city the choose.

The day I saw GB behave in such a disgusting manner, was my political awakening.

Thank you for giving some thought to this subject, and bothering to post it.

REKA Sat 13-Sept-25 20:17:37

Aveline

I didn't Photoshop that pic I posted. I just remembered seeing it in the news. If you Google you'll find lots of others.
It's the sort of thing that makes me uneasy. As I've said before people of all sorts of religions don't make these large public statements. I wouldn't say I was Islamophobia just Islam*aware*.

That picture is AI. And not very good either

Aveline Sat 13-Sept-25 20:14:42

M0nica you are exactly right!

Namsnanny Sat 13-Sept-25 20:06:14

Kandinsky

It’s like Groundhog Day on here recently.
Everyday, the same people saying the same things.

Poster A) ‘Yay! Fly the flags’

‘Poster B). Racist!’

That’s basically all you get.

Oh come on, be fair people want to debate. wink

Nothing pursuades me that I am wrong, and helps my dull dim brain realise how warped my perspective is, than watching people been labelled racist or prejudiced.

This is a mis quote allocated to Churchill

It takes courage to stand up and speak
It also takes courage to sit down and listen

Definition of bigot: A person who is unreasonably attached to a
idea or belief, who is antagonistic towards a member of the offending group. Could apply to quite a few.

J52 Sat 13-Sept-25 19:58:41

Sago

J52

Extra police were drafted in from other counties, including my own. Meanwhile, locals dealing 999 wait for a response.
This is a disgusting waste of police time and taxpayers money.
In my opinion, I’m to polite to add more.

Have seen how many Police do you think attend football matches across the country and the “hate marches” across London?

Yes, all a waste of police times, especially as the forces have been reducing reduced over the last decade.
And yes today’s march is another.

M0nica Sat 13-Sept-25 19:53:37

The question no one is asking is why Tommy Robinson is attracting so much support, or indeed why Nigel Farage and Reform get so much support.

Its easy peasy jackaneasy to get all upset and wild-eyed because all these events are happenng, anyone can do thaat.

The question people should beasking and thinking about, and perhaps accepting some uncomfortable truths is why people like Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage attract so much support.

The answer is quite straightforward. Over the last few decades, politics and government has slipped into the handsof an urban intellectual elite, from a variety of backgrounds, who think themselves superior to all of us, who believe they know what we ought to want better than we do and are determined to give us what they want to give us, to dismiss the fears and concerns of what they would conisider the lumpen prolatariat.

This knd of thing goes on for so long then the despised common people take over, and since those in charge refuse to listen they look to leaders who are articulate how they feel, what they want in life and what sort of society they want to live in.

This society may well contain elelments that we do not like and make us put our hands to our face in horror. But why should we have everything our way and ignore those who disagree with us because they are less well educated and not as articulate.

This how most revolutions start. It is how the French Revolution started, and the unsuccessful risings in Hungary and Czechoslovakia in 1956 and 1968 and the successful overthrow of the USSR in 1991.

It is now happening in Western Europe and is advanced in Eastern Europe, now it is the British turn. It is up to the main stream parties to listen to those deserting them for the extreme right, listen to them and act on their deep concerns and not just dismiss them as Gordeon Brown did when he called a Labour supporter who had challenged him over the economy and immigration a "bigoted woman".