This must be a sad day for England

MollyNew

Doodledog

It's terrifying.

I'm normally an optimist, but these days I fear for my children and any grandchildren I may have.

I was feeling that way too this morning.

I can hardly bear to watch the news. How have we become so polarised? What happened to reasoned debateand discussion?

I think it is the media.

Social media is full of debate from all postions[well most I presume].

But news stations and newspapers are so biased nowadays.
Ironic really, when there is 24 hour news so more than enough time for balanced and civilised debates.

Waterloosunset

Yes I absolutely agree Bluebelle, it is a very sad day and the future is of concern. I am a person of colour, I've lived in this country for over 65 years. My parents and my siblings gave everything to this country and looking at the scenes, I wonder for what? When we arrived in 1960 we were told to get back to where we belong. Maybe we should have done but it was ok for the British to take over our country once. We worked hard, we had good jobs and we thought we were accepted. More fool us, I see now that things have not changed. I hate how we are being made to feel. Slowly but surely, bit by bit, this country is returning to those days. Of course when challenged, racism is being denied. All with the false words of "oh we don't mean you, you are like the rest of us. No we mean the others".
What a slippery slope this country is in and I am both heartbroken and angry. I can only hold onto the fact that there are so many good British people who don't want to be part of this and I thank them and I can see from GN who they are.

Presumably Waterloosunset your family came here legally all those years ago. I don’t think anybody on here has a problem with that. You’ve all worked and held down good jobs.

My friend came here from St Kitts at a similar time and had the odd person who was unpleasant but by far her family were welcomed. She is still here after all these years and very happy.

There was far more tension and discrimination between the Asian community and the West Indians in her neighbourhood than from the white community.

I recently read a post on another forum from a very elderly West Indian man who said he can’t understand young black people complaining about racism. He says unless you were alive when he was a young man you have no idea what racism is.

You must know that black and brown people now get far more opportunities to go to Uni than ever before and many, many people of colour in this country go into top jobs in the country.

valdavi
If they don't support TR, why on earth go to the time, effort and expense of going on a march that he's organised? Surely that's supporting him?

Quite possibly because many of those marching are as ignorant of what he represents as many are ignorant about CK’s opinions. They are just keen to take part in a parade they see as supporting England.

There are always the rabble rousers who attack others, whether it’s because they don’t like being told they are in the wrong or because violence is what they stand for.

Recently we have been on told by the media that doing anything which some see as being proud to be English, is wrong.

I wouldn’t have joined in anything organised by TR, any more than I’d have attacked the Women Won’t Wheesht protestors.

It’s a shame nobody else would dare organise a march displaying pride in being English, for fear of being accused of exactly what TR represents.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I’ve been reading up on the subject.
Apparently there are 85 Sharia Councils. They arbitrate to help find a consensus. Not upheld in any way by UK courts of law, so any decision can be contested.

Maybe they’re a kind of softer community service then.

It’s just that the Muslim Professor on television knew his subject and was very persuasive in his arguments against their existence. It has me wondering why now if they are so benign?
😮

Some of us did our reading up on the subject before posting misinformation!

Erm, excuse me but when have I ever said I’m a fan of Tommy Robinson? Never is the correct answer.

Today was all about ‘Uniting the Country’. People of all colours (and flags) attended. This gives me hope for the future. We like being British. All of us here. We have so many freedoms denied to citizens of other countries. We SHOULD be grateful and proud of who we are.

Of course given your support of Tommy Robinson, we should not be surprised of your anti- Muslim stance, but for balance I would also like to say that Beth Din also operate outside of the British legal system.

I have no problem with either.

I’ve been reading up on the subject.
Apparently there are 85 Sharia Councils. They arbitrate to help find a consensus. Not upheld in any way by UK courts of law, so any decision can be contested.

Maybe they’re a kind of softer community service then.

It’s just that the Muslim Professor on television knew his subject and was very persuasive in his arguments against their existence. It has me wondering why now if they are so benign?
😮

I remember my Dad telling me about the Moseley marches and the subsequent violence in the East End of London, which he witnessed as a young man - to me, this bears all the same hallmarks. How sad...

What has also angered me is the fact that Elon Musk (ugh!) was videolinked to the rally and told the crowd, "You can't - we don't have another four years, or whenever the next election is, it's too long. Something's got to be done. There's got to be a dissolution of Parliament and a new vote held." WTH has it got to do with him?

My goodness it seems to me that with the odd diehard exception, most of us need to stop and take stock as to what is being said and argued on this thread.

Where do we think we are heading? What sort of society are we arguing for?

I for one am worried.

Oreo

Government has to sit up and take notice, remember the poll tax protests?

Yay! Let the bullies win!

What a message to give out!

Maremia

There may be some posts on here that have offended you Waterloosunset, please scroll past them, ignore them, you are British and welcome. You have more than earned your place here.

Hear, hear👏👏👏

There may be some posts on here that have offended you Waterloosunset, please scroll past them, ignore them, you are British and welcome. You have more than earned your place here.

Waterloosunset

Yes I absolutely agree Bluebelle, it is a very sad day and the future is of concern. I am a person of colour, I've lived in this country for over 65 years. My parents and my siblings gave everything to this country and looking at the scenes, I wonder for what? When we arrived in 1960 we were told to get back to where we belong. Maybe we should have done but it was ok for the British to take over our country once. We worked hard, we had good jobs and we thought we were accepted. More fool us, I see now that things have not changed. I hate how we are being made to feel. Slowly but surely, bit by bit, this country is returning to those days. Of course when challenged, racism is being denied. All with the false words of "oh we don't mean you, you are like the rest of us. No we mean the others".
What a slippery slope this country is in and I am both heartbroken and angry. I can only hold onto the fact that there are so many good British people who don't want to be part of this and I thank them and I can see from GN who they are.

I’m sorry you’ve been made to feel this way Waterloosunset.

Please rest assured there are many, many UK citizens who are grateful for the contributions you and your family have made to this country.

We want nothing to do with the racism demonstrated today. This is not patriotism. Your parents were more patriotic than Yaxley Lennon and his supporters will ever be.

Government has to sit up and take notice, remember the poll tax protests?

Jeremy Corbyn drew massive crowds. Didn't mean much in the end.

The small group of antifascists are hemmed, in with far right groups on every side. They are now dancing to 'Lose yourself to dance' and are in high spirits.
Meanwhile clashes are continuing between the 'Unite the Kingdom' marchers and police, with fireworks and other projectiles being hurled at the police.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Or a joyous reminder of what it is to be British. An amazing sight. Families, young and old, peacefully protesting. Lots and lots of women are there, I notice and not a few black people, too.
And thousands upon thousands of flags.
🇬🇧

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Such a marvellous sight of people joining together to express huge dissatisfaction in the way the country is heading.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Free speech & courteous debate is to be welcomed on here. ✔️

Only by some, unfortunately. Others take every chance to deride and contradict posters, as I found to my cost recently!

It is allowed. No wonder people are uncomfortable about it.

Aveline

Whole streets like this one in London

How is this allowed??

Whole streets like this one in London

Aveline

So it's irrational to have different opinions?

It is on Gransnet it appears.

Is 'opprobrium' a posh word for convictions? I believe that Stephen Yaxley Lennon has convictions for financial and immigration frauds, cocaine possession with intent to supply, and has served 5 prison terms.

At the moment in the UK we have the freedom to march (protest) many other countries haven’t got this freedom.

growstuff

Oreo

It’s a wake up call for the government in case they haven’t yet got the message that immigration in the UK is out of control.

Aha! So immigration = Islam on your book. Could that be a clue as to why so many people are paranoid about immigration?

Immigration doesn’t mean Islam in my book, where did you get that from?
Immigrants are from many faiths and none.