But David, it's important to understand the psychological elements in racism, the "drivers" in order to make changes in ourselves and in how we approach others.
Lack of self awareness in why we act as we do leads to clumsy and generalising assumptions, which is what I "See" in your post.
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Racism is a result of poor psychological functioning
(375 Posts)Steve Taylor, a senior psychological university lecturer has produced an article which outlines how racism may develop, and the 5 stages leading to it.
“ Research shows a link between prejudice and poor psychological functioning, including poor relationships with insecurity and aggression. This can often be traced back to a disturbed and insecure childhood. Other research has shown a link between racism and anxiety, demonstrating that people become more prejudiced during challenging times.
More generally, studies demontrate that when people are made to feel insecure or anxious, they are more likely to identify with their national or ethnic groups. This enhances their self-esteem and their sense of identity, as a defence against insecurity and anxiety.
There are clearly social and economic factors that encourage racism, such as hierarchy and inequality. But the above research suggests that racism is largely a psychological defence mechanism against anxiety and insecurity.”
The 5 stages
1. L“the process begins when a person lacks a sense of security and identity, which generates a desire to affiliate themselves with a group. This affiliation strengthens their identity and provides a sense of belonging.
What’s wrong with this? Why shouldn’t we take pride in our national or religious identity, and feel a sense of brotherhood or sisterhood with others who share our identity?
2. Because group identity often leads to a second, more dangerous stage. In order to further strengthen their sense of identity, members of a group may develop antagonism towards other groups. Such hostility may make the group feel more defined and cohesive, as if they can see themselves more clearly in opposition to others.
3. A third stage of the process is when members of a group withdraw empathy from members of other groups, limiting their concern and compassion to their peers. They may act benevolently towards members of their own group but be indifferent or callous to anyone outside it. The withdrawal of empathy turns other human beings into objects, and enables cruelty and violence.
4. Fourth is the homogenisation of individuals belonging to other groups. People are no longer perceived in terms of their individual personalities or behaviour, but in terms of prejudices about the group as a whole. Any member of the group is a legitimate target and can be punished for the alleged transgressions of other individuals from the group. In contemporary terms, any asylum seeker can be punished for the alleged crime of an individual asylum seeker.
5. Finally, people may project their own psychological flaws and personal failings onto another group, as a strategy of avoiding responsibility. Other groups become scapegoats, and consequently are liable to attacked or even murdered. People with strong narcissistic and paranoid personality traits are especially prone to such projection, since they struggle to accept their personal faults, instead searching for others to take the blame.
In other words, racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health, a sign of anxiety and of a lack of identity and inner security. Psychologically healthy people with a stable sense of identity and security are very rarely (if ever) racist. They ultimately have no need to strengthen their sense of self through group identity.
The Conversation
16/9/25
Whiff
When people think for racism they think it's caused by white people against other colours and religions. But white people are also victims of racism. But people forget that . I have had the double whammy being white and disabled I have had racist abuse shouted at me . Thankfully since moving 6 years ago to the north west not had any abuse here .
Definitely not other “races” discriminate”against each other in exactly the same way, Hindus v Muslims, Tutsis V Hutus, Matabele V Mashona and hundreds of others, a great many don’t trust or fear other “tribes” nothing new no deep psychological reason.
There seems to be so much misunderstanding of what "racism" actually is and I'm sure that's why people get so upset. Sorry Whiff you weren't subjected to racism. You were treated badly and in certain circumstances might have had a claim under the 2020 Equality act because you are disabled but not on the grounds of race.
Prejudice is not illegal, it's only when that prejudice is combined with power of some sort that it becomes racism. If people vocalise their prejudice or write about it, it may become "hate speech" but that again is somewhat different to racism. tbh I think "hate speech" is difficult to define therefore it causes issues around free speech but that's another issue.
I could be very prejudiced against a certain race (as defined under the act), I might say very nasty things to my neighbours, share my views with other people, hang a flag out of my window because I like Tommy Robinson but no one is going to charge me with racism because I haven't actually deprived anyone of anything (under the act). However, if I post an advert for someone to rent a room in my house and exclude certain groups from applying, or refuse to sell my house to someone because of the colour of their skin, or if short listing for a job exclude everyone with a "foreign" sounding name, then I have turned my prejudice into racism. Actually, although I'm not a lawyer, I think the same sort of tests apply under gender, disability etc. I think we use the term "racist" far to frequently when what we are really talking about is prejudice. I'm guilty of it and tbh I think it weakens the reasons we need the equality act rather than strengthen them. We all have our prejudices it's unfortunate though that so many people are prejudiced against people because they have a different colour skin or worship a different God, fortunately most of these people aren't in a position to turn their prejudice into a racist act but some are and that's we have laws to try to stop them.
No doubt some will argue with the above but to the best of my ability I've given a quick overview of what racism is as a legal term.
Exactly so.
Whitewavemark2
cariadAgain
Nothing wrong with the odd bomb - it gets people thinking and discussing.
However, I did not endorse the OP and if you look a few posts down from the original post you will see how I suggest one way that “othering” and racism might develop.
But as maizie also pointed out, no one ever picks that baton up and runs with it.
Strange, isn’t it, Wwmk2?. In so many anti migrant posts people are telling us that we can’t have any more people in the country because public services are too stretched to deal with them.
I suggested that it’s not the number of people causing the problem but the shortage of money to improve and expand the services as governments have deliberately underfunded them since 2010. This is, if course, an economic problem, not a capacity
Any reaction at all? Of course not
Yes indeed! Britain's history has been punctuated with invasions and settlers all bringing varied influences. Although from what we know of the dominating forces that seized power most notably the Romans and Normans there were numerous insurrections against them, because the settled people didn't welcome their structured way of life being over turned.
Did they use a lot of wooden spoons?
I blame the Romans🤭
cariadAgain
Nothing wrong with the odd bomb - it gets people thinking and discussing.
However, I did not endorse the OP and if you look a few posts down from the original post you will see how I suggest one way that “othering” and racism might develop.
But as maizie also pointed out, no one ever picks that baton up and runs with it.
Been googling on G.N. re previous threads.
Just went off and measured the huge wooden spoon for stirring with that I bought a while back - 17" long, 3" wide - in case anyone would like it passed onto them.....
I made a mistake when I sad until the 1960s.
Compulsory sterilisation for those deemed “unfit” n Sweden still went on in this century.
TerriBull
Oh well the Celts then! but how far back should we go, even the Celts emigrated here from various places, The Danube basin I read, but other places too. I said Anglo Saxon because that's often how we are described as a collective ethnicity, but clearly we all have other strands given the trail of settlers from numerous places.
Your other point was not something I knew about but will take your point on that
Just shows how far back we can identify with “our tribe” and resent incomers😬
Crikey!!!
I think that starter post counts as THE biggest/boldest post I've ever seen anywhere to start up a thread.
A verbal example of "Put a bomb on the ground, light blue touchpaper and stand back and wait for the explosion".
What an odd thing to do.
It feels like it equates to a very "different" (expresses it tactfully) person I used to know of years back that had an odd hobby of going off to watch car crashes and their aftermath when he could. No intention of trying to be helpful or anything - he just loved watching disaster scenes and human suffering. He was very odd and I seriously wondered about one crime that happened near his home - as it would have fit in with the way he had this 'hobby'.
Oh well the Celts then! but how far back should we go, even the Celts emigrated here from various places, The Danube basin I read, but other places too. I said Anglo Saxon because that's often how we are described as a collective ethnicity, but clearly we all have other strands given the trail of settlers from numerous places.
Your other point was not something I knew about but will take your point on that
When people think for racism they think it's caused by white people against other colours and religions. But white people are also victims of racism. But people forget that . I have had the double whammy being white and disabled I have had racist abuse shouted at me . Thankfully since moving 6 years ago to the north west not had any abuse here .
Two comments on Terribulls post.
The first (indignantly) is that Anglo Saxon are not the indigenous people of Britain. Nobody is really but very definitely not the Anglo Saxons!
The second is that the Swedes are historically well known for their draconian measures -modern eugenics only came to a halt there in the 1960s. Their concept of the right to individual freedom is very different.
Allira
So how would you interpret these statements?
People with with strong narcissistic and paranoid personality traits are especially prone to such projection
racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health
In other words, racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health
I wonder what the views other psychologists might be on the subject?
The way I see it Allira is that what he says is valid enough as far as it goes
but there are lots of other psychological factors going on that he ignores: like just for example greed, envy, lust for power, fear, that are all in the human psyche
So the sentence,
"In other words, racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health"
Is over-simplistic as it misses out too much.
I believe above at some point above I said don't look at it in terms of mental illness or wellness,
but human characteristics,
but he is right as a psychologist that some personality traits, if they stray into "psychotic" are likley to have outcomes like racism (paranoia especially).
Surely all so called racism is lack of trust and the more “different” others are the more lack of trust. Different religion, culture, colour, the more difference the less trust.
If crime is associated with any group it makes it much worse, if positive discrimination is made by authorities that adds to the resentment.
Well one view is that racism is innate. Which I think is bunkum .
Then of course you have the eugenicists - plenty of those around at the moment,
Also bunkum.
So how would you interpret these statements?
People with with strong narcissistic and paranoid personality traits are especially prone to such projection
racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health
In other words, racism is a symptom of psychological ill-health
I wonder what the views other psychologists might be on the subject?
Allira
That description of transpersonal psychology is far to vague and woo-hoo for me, but the O/P makes a lot of sense to me.
It starts with the personal aspects (a sense of security and Identity)...
...and moves gradually through different and larger "people" situations.
Note - the O/P does not mention "Mental Health or Illness. It's been brought in by GN's.
What he does say
"Psychologically healthy people with a stable sense of identity and security are very rarely (if ever) racist.
They ultimately have no need to strengthen their sense of self through group identity"
Is surely common sense? If someone is fortunate enough to have adequate genuine self confidence, probably they are not particularly threatened in personal race situations and therefore broader ones - (unless its a dangerous one of course, genuine threats)
I wonder if this report is based on actual peer-reviewed research over years or just this psychologist's own musings?
Steve Taylor's field of expertise is Transpersonal Psychology.
Transpersonal psychology is a branch of psychology that explores the spiritual and transcendent aspects of human experience, integrating them with modern psychology to understand the full spectrum of human potential, including spiritual practices, altered states of consciousness, and peak experiences beyond the conventional ego.
Taylor has been included in the list of the "100 Most Spiritually Influential Living people", published by Watkins Books, "Mind, Body, Spirit magazine", for the last 10 years.
I am going ignore what is written in the opening post.
As it is so awful.
And mentioning mental illness then makes it go beyond the pail.
I think racism is often borne, as others have said out of a fear of the unknown and also never having engaged with anyone other than one's own tribe.
I think it is this. Lack of trust of people not in "your" tribe.
Racism works across all colours and nationalities and boundaries.
Nothing to do with mental illness[I can hardly bear write that idea]. Shocking slur.
I would also say that I think men are the most frightened by someone "not of their tribe".
It strikes at their egos, "manness", trying to be "top dog" etc.
I suggest we (all of us) actually get back to the O/P.
I said your comment on GN, labelling him by race, was racist.
As I’ve previously been the victim of some of your “silly comments” I’m unmoved by your comment.
Like you and many others on GN, I also have friends and acquaintances at work, the gym, choir etc, who fit every possible ist situation that arises. 😄
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