Islamophobia

Sorry Fried, I'm not understanding your point.

Ain't google great.

Maremia

Before that AGAA4, in 1923 from a similar French word.

Thank you! Saved me a job.

Babs03

Most racism stems from ignorance/fear so am not sure why when it comes to Muslims the word ‘phobia’ is used but not with regard to other groups.
I think it can be unhelpful and that we should refer to racism or something rooted in racism rather than using other words that can muddy the waters.

Wrong end of the stick.
Phobia is not being used against Muslims Babs03 Labour are bringing in the term Islamophobia!

It’s NOT Muslim-ophobia as I already said, up thread.

AGAA4

I wonder if the word islamaphobia started with those terrorists who bombed London and Manchester for instance and would shout For Islam!
They are very frightening people and did cause phobia.

That kind of fear would be understandable but it's still irrational.

I have a feeling the word was in use long before those incidents (but I'll see if I can find out).

Before that AGAA4, in 1923 from a similar French word.

TerriBull

Fear is not necessarily the same as ignorance, sometimes, but not always, Fear can be under pinned by actual catastrophic scenarios that have been reinforced by government warnings telling us they are raising risk factors to the highest level as threats could be imminent.

That kind of fear wouldn't be described as a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear.

In any case, Islamophobia has come to mean something more than "fear". Words change their nuances of meaning all the time.

I wonder if the word islamaphobia started with those terrorists who bombed London and Manchester for instance and would shout For Islam!
They are very frightening people and did cause phobia.

Allira

But it's not racism. White British people are Muslim. DD's Bosnian friend is Muslim.

Islam is a religion, not a race.

OK! So it's not racism - it's Islamophobia! That's why irrational fear of Islam has its own word.

Antisemitism isn't racist either. All these words are relatively modern inventions. Most sane people know the commonly understood definitions. Anything else is slippery semantics.

Words aren't necessarily the sum of their component morphemes.

Do you mean like the difference between a prejudice and a bigotry?

Fear is not necessarily the same as ignorance, sometimes, but not always, Fear can be under pinned by actual catastrophic scenarios that have been reinforced by government warnings telling us they are raising risk factors to the highest level as threats could be imminent.

Google definitions are quite varied. Some say, yes it is racist. Ohers say quasi racist.

Maybe some of our Linguists from the Pedants Corner could help with the different derivations of these words.

But it's not racism. White British people are Muslim. DD's Bosnian friend is Muslim.

Islam is a religion, not a race.

Most racism stems from ignorance/fear so am not sure why when it comes to Muslims the word ‘phobia’ is used but not with regard to other groups.
I think it can be unhelpful and that we should refer to racism or something rooted in racism rather than using other words that can muddy the waters.

Maremia

Interesting point about fear of the IRA. Was there a word similar to islamophobia and anti-semitism to describe those particular terrorists?
Asking, because I can't remember one.

There was a lot of stereotyping and racist tropes regarding Irish people not just during the troubles but before when landlords would stipulate, no blacks, no Irish, no dogs.
Again is rooted in racism so perhaps if we just call it that.

Terribull, a good post.

DD was in London, travelling to work on 7th July 2005 and remembers the horrors of that day.
It doesn't mean that she does not have friends now who are Muslim.

People are solely not defined by their race or religion.

Interesting point about fear of the IRA. Was there a word similar to islamophobia and anti-semitism to describe those particular terrorists?
Asking, because I can't remember one.

See all the stuff about Stephen Yaxley Lenin on the side of protecting women and girls? I will give it more credence when he stops surrounding himself, and attracting to his marches/riots when his followers are much, much, much less involved in domestic abuse.

Yes that's what my son told me about TR supported by Israel, my son is no fan of Israel and he often tells me TR is a grade A scumbag. I wouldn't argue with him about the latter.

Going back to "Islamophobia", taking the Islam out of the equation, the definition of phobia is an irrational fear. Is that fear irrational though? when there have been quite a few terrorist incidents throughout the west, including on our own soil, the fatalities have been numerous. When I was working in London and the IRA was a constant threat, I had a phobia about them. Phobias don't always equate to hatred it's more about fear and sometimes that isn't groundless. Articles such as the opening one never address that, they never look at the elephant/s in the room, of which there are several, they never question why such a phobia is only directed at one group and not others, for example is there a Hinduphobia? or as I mentioned up thread, conversely do not some from the more extreme members of Muslim communities have their very own phobias directed towards western communities.

Of course Muslims are not a homogeneous mass any more than the white population are. They, like all incomers, are represented in the highest, echelons of society, government, medicine, the law and have assimilated well into their host nation. Some are deeply religious, some wear that religion lightly, some will be atheists. We constantly hear, that the white working classes who turn up at demonstrations that have been in the news lately do so because they are uneducated and bigoted. Scratch below the surface and with most demographics, some sort of racism, bigotry will be going on. Is it wrong to question whether bigots and racists were exemplified by the working class, Pakistani community who labelled white working class girls as trash and up for it! so much so, their treatment of them wasn't abuse because somehow they were complicit? maybe another example of racism As mentioned up thread, would it be racist to refer to the wider community as Kaffirs in a derogatory fashion as some Muslim clerics have and to express the desire to dismantle our system of government, because it's inferior and set up their own. Maybe an example of complete lack of respect towards a host country that raises the hackles of TR and his ilk.

Allira

growstuff

All words are made up.

Yes.

But the meaning is different, as I said.

Strangely, semitic referred to people who speak both Hebrew and Arabic.

Ah! But that's the interesting thing about linguistics. Anti-semitic is not the opposite of semitic.

fancythat

^If people are concerned that the main UK political parties aren't listening to them, they should be more concerned about who is apparently listening and why.

^

Possibly.

But people want hope.

Hope has become scarce or not forthcoming any more.

But at least and last, many have now woken up to what the conservatives and Labour[up to now] have not delivered.

Hope is a very enticing and powerful word.

Hope for what?

Seriously, what hope would Robinson, Farage and this lot give anybody?

They couldn't give a stuff about the people in the former industrial towns, where there's little work and the infrastructure is crumbling.

As an example, look at the CV of Reform's latest convert - Danny Kruger. Son of a rich South African property developer and Prue Leith, alumnus of Eton and Edinburgh and Oxford Universities, worked as a political adviser, including as David Cameron's speech writer. How does that make him "connected" to "ordinary" people?

growstuff

All words are made up.

Yes.

But the meaning is different, as I said.

Strangely, semitic referred to people who speak both Hebrew and Arabic.

Islamophobia is rooted in racism because much of the hate speech uses well known racist tropes and they are racially stereotyped as all being the same/ ‘not like us’.

AGAA4

Thanks for the link growstuff very
interesting that Yaxley Lennon is being funded by supporters of Israel.

Especially seeing as Yaxley Lennon and his thugs are also anti semites/Holocaust deniers, some with swastika tattooes.
Strange bedfellows.