Is the country ready for a Farage government?

Thanks for the clarification, Dd. I do see what you were getting at now

It's annoying and frustrating, but I'd say ignore or report. There's no mileage in a slanging match.

fancythat

I refer you to my post of 21.54pm.
Other posters know that I dont keep repeating myself.

www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/reform-uk-rows-back-on-its-contract-with-the-people-reports-382122/

"Reform UK has rowed back on its so-called “contract with the people”, saying it was supposed to be more of a “philosophy of what the party wants to achieve rather than policy details”.

Speaking to the Independent, the party’s new chair, Zia Yusuf said the faux manifesto unveiled by Nigel Farage in Merthyr Tydfil wasn’t supposed to be taken too literally.

Instead, he said, it should be considered “more as a philosophy” of where the party wants to head over time.

When the “contract with the people” (so-called because Mr Farage claimed manifestos were considered to be lies) was launched in Wales ahead of the General Election it was lampooned for being “Liz Truss economics on steroids”.

The party promised £140 billion in tax cuts including raising the threshold of income tax to £20,000, claiming it could find £156 billion in spending cuts.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank said the plans were based on “extremely optimist assumptions” about growth and the sums “do not add up”, meaning the manifesto as a whole was “problematic”.

But speaking to The Independent, Yusuf said that the contract with the people should now be considered in a new light.

Addressing the problematic sums, he said: “They don’t add up on the basis that you implement everything in there on day one for arriving in Downing Street. That’s fair. But that was never going to be the plan.”

The Independent has an article on this, but it is behind a paywall -
www.independent.co.uk › UK › UK Politics
2 Sept 2024 "Nigel Farage ditches Reform UK's 'contract with the people'"

I'm sorry, Dd but I don't understand your first paragraph at all. Can you expand a little on it?
My first paragraph was I’ve all but given up posting on here, particularly on N&P. If posts not toeing the Reform line aren’t nitpicked into oblivion (ie one word disagreed with and pulled apart to the point of tedium) they are ignored and argued against as if they weren’t there.

What’s not to understand? I’ll rephrase, although doing so illustrates my point, really.

At times, people who are not in support of Reform will post to say so, and their posts are subjected to having one word singled out, or a turn of phrase ‘misunderstood’ and are asked to explain themselves over and over instead of a discussion of the topic in hand. At other times their posts are ignored altogether, as though the points they have made don’t matter, whilst the ones they have countered already are rehashed repeatedly with no reference to the counter-arguments.

Agree or disagree with that statement by all means, but I don’t think it is difficult to understand, is it?

Thank you for the kind comments. I do feel frustrated, but will no doubt ride the wave and hang around* for a while longer. I have a lot on my mind just now and probably shouldn’t come on here in the small hours in the hope of being distracted .

* unless someone pretends not to be able to get her head around mixed metaphors, that is .

Oreo

growstuff

Oreo

And there you go with the insults, honestly they’re counterproductive, if you or anyone else wants to win over someone who’s thinking of voting Reform then leave that last bit out.

If you think calling people out for not being able to come up with a coherent answer and parroting myths is an insult, I'm surprised. The way you dish it out, I would have thought you are made of sterner stuff.

Oh I’m made of very stern stuff indeed, and the insults aren’t to me they’re to anyone on the forum, or the public who may look at GN and think they may vote for Reform.
Telling them they’re dim turkeys and suchlike isn’t going to win them over is it?
The electorate will vote with their feet over many big issues and immigration is a very big one.

They’ll vote for which party Rupert Murdoch tells them to vote for. Imo

nanna8

I’d think back to approx 1968 - full of hope and promise. Swinging London and all that. The UK felt very positive in those days.

Rose-tinted spectacles. Some 1968 events:

•People were asked to work longer hours without pay.

•First test firing of a nuclear missile by the Royal Navy.

•Job losses in the coal mining industry.

•Sterling crisis.

•Police and protesters clash over the Vietnam War.

•Enoch Powell’s Rivers of Blood speech.

•Kray twins arrested for murder, fraud, blackmail and assault.

•Ronan Point tower block collapses.

•Ford Motor Company “Made in Dagenham” strike - a good result in the end but why was it necessary? Because women did not have equal pay.

•NHS reintroduces prescription charges

•The South East of England flooded.

•The Race Relations Act - another good thing but why was it necessary? Because people were being refused housing, employment and access to public services because of their skin colour.

•Eleven year old killer Mary Bell sentenced to life detention.

• Hong Kong flu. 80,000 died.

There were some good things too but let’s not pretend things were hunky dory in 1968 and more than they are now.

growstuff

Oreo

I have no idea if Farage can eventually stop the flow of small boats, depends how draconian he’s prepared to be, but it isn’t working with Labour and it wasn’t with the Conservatives so you can see why people may be prepared to give Reform a chance.
You also use the word racist again.It’s not helping your case.

Are you suggesting people cover up the truth?

Except it isn’t the truth.

growstuff

Oreo

And there you go with the insults, honestly they’re counterproductive, if you or anyone else wants to win over someone who’s thinking of voting Reform then leave that last bit out.

If you think calling people out for not being able to come up with a coherent answer and parroting myths is an insult, I'm surprised. The way you dish it out, I would have thought you are made of sterner stuff.

Oh I’m made of very stern stuff indeed, and the insults aren’t to me they’re to anyone on the forum, or the public who may look at GN and think they may vote for Reform.
Telling them they’re dim turkeys and suchlike isn’t going to win them over is it?
The electorate will vote with their feet over many big issues and immigration is a very big one.

Oreo

I have no idea if Farage can eventually stop the flow of small boats, depends how draconian he’s prepared to be, but it isn’t working with Labour and it wasn’t with the Conservatives so you can see why people may be prepared to give Reform a chance.
You also use the word racist again.It’s not helping your case.

Are you suggesting people cover up the truth?

DaisyAnneReturns

nanna8

I’d think back to approx 1968 - full of hope and promise. Swinging London and all that. The UK felt very positive in those days.

What proportion of the population do you think can remember 1968 as an adult? I didn't have a vote then and I'm old!

You'd have to be in your mid 70s at least. I was 13 and I can't really remember how I felt - probably looking forward to the day I could leave school.

MaizieD

Oreo

PaynesGrey

Perhaps Oreo you would care to explain then why Reform is so obsessed with removing Pride flags and mimicking Trump in his hated of diversity, equality and inclusion (DEI) policies. Reform’s election contract (albeit withdrawn by September 2024 but still up on its website) cleary stated Scrap all Diversity, Equality and Inclusion (DE&I) roles which Reform councils have sought to do.

Please explain why Pride flags and DEI policies are so offensive to Reform.

Please explain?😄
I won’t be a Reform voter but on the flags issue I bet most people are sick and tired of all the Pride nonsense in the streets, including flags.

Pride flags don't bother me in the slightest. They're harmless.

OTOH, the plethora of drooping St George's crosses and union Jacks which abound in the areas around me speak to demonising immigrants and anyone who doesn't conform to a narrow vision of 'patriotism'. I detest them but I can live with them. That's what freedom of expression is all about.

I don't think I've ever seen a Pride flag - certainly not in this town. On the other hand, a couple of mini roundabouts have been daubed with red crosses and look a mess.

Oreo

And there you go with the insults, honestly they’re counterproductive, if you or anyone else wants to win over someone who’s thinking of voting Reform then leave that last bit out.

If you think calling people out for not being able to come up with a coherent answer and parroting myths is an insult, I'm surprised. The way you dish it out, I would have thought you are made of sterner stuff.

Oreo

PaynesGrey

Perhaps Oreo you would care to explain then why Reform is so obsessed with removing Pride flags and mimicking Trump in his hated of diversity, equality and inclusion (DEI) policies. Reform’s election contract (albeit withdrawn by September 2024 but still up on its website) cleary stated Scrap all Diversity, Equality and Inclusion (DE&I) roles which Reform councils have sought to do.

Please explain why Pride flags and DEI policies are so offensive to Reform.

Please explain?😄
I won’t be a Reform voter but on the flags issue I bet most people are sick and tired of all the Pride nonsense in the streets, including flags.

Pride flags don't bother me in the slightest. They're harmless.

OTOH, the plethora of drooping St George's crosses and union Jacks which abound in the areas around me speak to demonising immigrants and anyone who doesn't conform to a narrow vision of 'patriotism'. I detest them but I can live with them. That's what freedom of expression is all about.

nanna8

I’d think back to approx 1968 - full of hope and promise. Swinging London and all that. The UK felt very positive in those days.

What proportion of the population do you think can remember 1968 as an adult? I didn't have a vote then and I'm old!

Oreo

I have no idea if Farage can eventually stop the flow of small boats, depends how draconian he’s prepared to be, but it isn’t working with Labour and it wasn’t with the Conservatives so you can see why people may be prepared to give Reform a chance.
You also use the word racist again.It’s not helping your case.

It an international problem Oreo. You need international negotiations to get it under legal and humain control. Who do you think wants to talk to a Farage government? We/they have to talk to any leader of the US until they get their ducks in a row.

The UK has been good at negotiations in the past. We learnt to be because we had to be. The large increase in numbers happened under Boris egged on by Farage. Why does this give any hope to those who shout so much about immigration that such people can do the opposite to what they brought about?

I’d think back to approx 1968 - full of hope and promise. Swinging London and all that. The UK felt very positive in those days.

Going back to the original question my impression is that a lot of people want Britain to go back to a time around 1900, however, going by my GC they don’t feel that at all, they have grown up in a multicultural society and seem to muddle along

PaynesGrey

Perhaps Oreo you would care to explain then why Reform is so obsessed with removing Pride flags and mimicking Trump in his hated of diversity, equality and inclusion (DEI) policies. Reform’s election contract (albeit withdrawn by September 2024 but still up on its website) cleary stated Scrap all Diversity, Equality and Inclusion (DE&I) roles which Reform councils have sought to do.

Please explain why Pride flags and DEI policies are so offensive to Reform.

Please explain?😄
I won’t be a Reform voter but on the flags issue I bet most people are sick and tired of all the Pride nonsense in the streets, including flags.

I have no idea if Farage can eventually stop the flow of small boats, depends how draconian he’s prepared to be, but it isn’t working with Labour and it wasn’t with the Conservatives so you can see why people may be prepared to give Reform a chance.
You also use the word racist again.It’s not helping your case.

Perhaps Oreo you would care to explain then why Reform is so obsessed with removing Pride flags and mimicking Trump in his hated of diversity, equality and inclusion (DEI) policies. Reform’s election contract (albeit withdrawn by September 2024 but still up on its website) cleary stated Scrap all Diversity, Equality and Inclusion (DE&I) roles which Reform councils have sought to do.

Please explain why Pride flags and DEI policies are so offensive to Reform.

Oreo

The above responses to Reform are probably another reason why they’ll win bigtime at the next election as they are the same as all the things the main political parties are desperately telling everyone.
If you sneer enough at the electorate they’ll give you a good hiding with their votes.
When the Conservatives and now Labour just can’t seem to say/do what people want they will turn to something else.

I wasn't sneering Oreo - I'm afraid. Born in Germany just after the war to a father who loved photography, we have an archive of what was left of that country and it's people. I do not want that type of government for us.

But then those who like to attack either misrepresented the post they reply to or they attack the writing rather than the content - as I have found.

If only you had something positive to say - and the wider "you" do insult posters, other politicians, anyone you feel is out of step with the march/rally you have decided to join.

The issue with When the Conservatives and now Labour just can’t seem to say/do what people want they will turn to something else., is the selfishness of that message. Democracy is not about the individual "getting what they want" it's about the best for all, a safe society with opportunity for all.

How can each of those intending to vote for Farage not be disappointed. You patently each cannot "get what you want" and it's really unlikely that many will - unless you can pay for all and everything on what will undoubtedly become a black market.

My last post was to growstuff btw

And there you go with the insults, honestly they’re counterproductive, if you or anyone else wants to win over someone who’s thinking of voting Reform then leave that last bit out.

Oreo

33,000 arrived by small boat since January this year, that isn’t a tiny number apart from all the years before that and the next few years.
All have to be housed and fed and given a small amount for extras.All will use NHS doctors and hospitals and dentists.
Is that a racist narrative? No it isn’t as it would still be the same if they were white Europeans.
That’s apart from legal immigration which is also out of control.Also apart from the thousands who have long lapsed visas and have no intention of ever going home.
It’s a huge mess.

And do you suppose Farage can solve this??
With a racist narrative and hotch potch of ideas, admitting himself he is not politically savvy?
The Tories tried, Labour are trying, but until politicians stop beating the drum and start looking at solid relationships with European countries as we had when with the EU, so that legal routes can be taken by asylum seekers and offices in EU countries can deal with migrants before they arrive here, there is no chance of doing anything remotely sensible.

Oreo

Nobody is coming for the LBGTQ community in the UK, tho Labour are unfortunately threatening the disabled and the old.

Which Reform would do with a vengeance!

Sorry, but I'm elderly and poor (bottom 10% income & savings), but Labour haven't had anything like the effect Reform would have, if the NHS were privatised any more that it already is and public services were cut.

Only a not very bright turkey would vote for a Reform Christmas.

RR now says she is proud of what Labour has achieved economically in the last 15 months.